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 Re:

1) Confess it to God
2) Let Him take it from you
3) Resist temptation ('lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil')

When it is done you have nothing to glory about, He removes the desire. The victory belongs to the Lord!

It's simply amazing the way that the Holy Spirit will take it from you. I spent years managing fruit, and the Lord spent a few months ripping out the root (not to say that temptation isn't there).

In Christ,
Earl J

-----------------------------------------------------------
Amen EJ!

Temptation here has been overcome by walking contrary to it: returning good for evil.
This is the best way found so far to resist the devil and make him run away.

Personally, when tempted to get angry, i see that there is both coveteousness and lust still trying to manifest in my life. Doing as His Spirit leads in opposition to these things is self-denial.

From here it's a matter of the cross and HE will kill out the urge.

g

 2010/12/3 23:06
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Prophetic gift vs prophetic office

Quote:

For you as a mature Christian, faithfulness is second nature but for a baby Christian faithfulness is a fruit of the spirit they still need to develop and even learn about.



Faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit that all Christians have by virtue of the new birth. No doubt, those who are more seasoned in faith are more fruitful in regard to this. But, young saints are just as capable as being faithful as those who are more tenured in the faith. For Christ has made them faithful.

Quote:

It is during this time of growth a Christian must go through that those I referred to as "young prophets" make mistakes.



Error filled prophecies are never called "mistakes" in Scripture. If a young prophet makes an error, it's because he deliberately chose to do so. If an older prophet makes an error, it's because he deliberately chose to do so. In a word, both have "sinned." It's not because the younger prophet is somehow lacking in the ability to carry out the ministry the Lord has charged him with. For everything he needs to carry out the calling the Lord has placed in his life has been provided him. He whom the Lord calls and sends, the Lord equips, makes qualified, and gives the ability to follow through with the task assigned to him before the foundations of the world.

Quote:

I gather from what you have said my brother that you are not called to the prophetic office? I have frequently encountered those with callings to this office and most of them have some very intense experiences (myself included) on a fairly regular basis.



I prefer not to use the term "office," because I find the term nowhere mentioned in Scripture in connection with the prophetic ministry. But I do consider myself to have a prophetic ministry, and have had this calling for about a decade. A few others have recognized such calling on my life as well.

But with that said, I do not consider myself a prophet because of the frequency or intensity of my utterances. I believe I am such because the Lord has called me as such. Indeed, if it were based on frequency or intensity of utterances, then I probably would not be qualified. I don't think I've ever given anymore than a few words in a single year.

Quote:

One needs training, just like people go to seminary or bible school, why should this be any different?



I've been to Bible college and seminary, but such was just to give me a deeper knowledge of the word. And in studying the word, I've yet to see where such ministry schools existed to train people in their spiritual gifts. Indeed, any such notions are entirely absent from the pages of the Scripture.

Quote:

Again I want to distance myself from the so called gurus selling books for obscene amounts of money, such books are frequently intended to, as it has been said, "flex spiritual muscle". On these points we are together



No offense to you personally, but I've yet to see in your post anything that would distance you from these guys. The little I've read, you really don't sound any different in anything I've seen you say. You might not be selling a book or inviting people to a conference, but theologically, your view of the prophetic seems to be sadly in the same mold of such fellows.

Blessings.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/12/3 23:11Profile









 Re:

For a long while now, prophetically speaking, I'd be thinking about something and almost the next day, it would happen. It's weird. When I have those thoughts, I always think that I should act upon them and by the next day there is no need because whatever it was is done. It's like God is telling me something and I am not sure what. I am no prophet, don't want to be, thank you very much.

 2010/12/3 23:37
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I think we make prophetic ministry much too complicated. Biblically speaking, being a prophet is simply about speaking on behalf of another. When one prophesies, one is simply declaring the thoughts and mind of Christ, as the Holy Spirit gives you utterance. To prophesy is to say Jesus would say, if Jesus were here saying it in person Himself. It's the sharing of the testimony of Christ, and what He thinks about anything and everything.

Yeah, all of this could be fleshed out some more. And it's very interesting to do so, with some edifying value. But, sometimes it's better to just take the axe to the root of the tree. For if you were to memorize the paragraph I just wrote, make that your motto, and teach it to others, you could spare yourself and the rest of the Church many problems. And instead of being dominated by a prophetic movement that is nothing short of embarrassing, we might actually produce a prophetic Church that glorifies God.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/12/3 23:55Profile
learjet
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Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
Indeed, any such notions are entirely absent from the pages of the Scripture



Perhaps you should reread the book of Samuel, and look for the phrase 'the school of the prophets'.

Jesus said in Matthew 7:15-20:

Quote:
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.”



Notice Jesus doesn’t say “by their doctrine you will recognize them” He says that they will look just like the other sheep and you won’t be able to tell them apart because ‘inwardly’ they are ferocious. You will recognize them by their fruit.

This brother comes in here to learn, he has a humble spirit by his writings (I’ve read all of this post), asking honest questions and you tear him apart (like a wolf):

Quote:
“No offense to you personally, but I've yet to see in your post anything that would distance you from these guys. The little I've read, you really don't sound any different in anything I've seen you say. You might not be selling a book or inviting people to a conference, but theologically, your view of the prophetic seems to be sadly in the same mold of such fellows.”



Brother, I’m glad that you don’t consider yourself a prophet.

In Christ,
Earl J

 2010/12/4 0:44Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Perhaps you should reread the book of Samuel, and look for the phrase 'the school of the prophets'.



Such a phrase does not exist.

Quote:

This brother comes in here to learn, he has a humble spirit by his writings (I’ve read all of this post), asking honest questions and you tear him apart (like a wolf):



I think you've probably misread me. I'm simply being straight and to the point. I'm not looking to tear the brother apart.

Quote:

Brother, I’m glad that you don’t consider yourself a prophet.



Actually, I do.



_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/12/4 0:50Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Thank you all

Hello my friends

Thank you all for your considered posts. I don't have much internet time at the moment so I must be brief.

One brother asked me if I was IRONMAN. I'm not, he's actually my brother-in-law. Thanks for the welcome, I'll pass your regards to him.

The general stream of thought from you is one that is emphasising character training from the Lord. This to me is a simple but ample truth that cannot be exhausted. One brother mentioned the school of prophets in Samuel and Kings, and I think the concept is the same as that of the "sons of the prophets" in the same book. I have noticed that prophesying as a collective seems to have a stronger anointing. More importantly, a collective movement can give an "environment of accountability and correction which we otherwise would not have", as Art Katz once said. For instance one can have a subtle bitterness and anger in their hearts and not no it, because no is close enough to point it out to them in love. Such character training is important.

I was tickled and greatly excited by the concept of God's providence providing a father. My pastor whom I met just two years ago is a wonderfully mature and Spirit filled man. His humility is always convicting and genuine yet he is firm authoritative at the same time. To me he is truly a gift of God's providence.

KingJimmy, I understand that you don't accept my calling, or phrasing, or anything else I say for that matter. That's perfectly fine and I accept that and you in love. There is no offense taken. Only, please don't let your opinion of me overshadow the subject matter of this thread. It's about failures in the prophetic move, not failures in Jimm! (lol). My failure are many I know but I'm not trying to take over the world here, I just would like some positive helpful insights on the subject matter without attacking my person or refering to my inner most thoughts as nonsense.

I've read all your posts and even gone to the links of the two letters you wrote and could see what the implication of what you thought of me, or who you perceive me to be anyway. That's alright. I love you anyway my brother. I hope however that we can continue to discuss this important matter without attacking one another's person because you don't deserve that, and I don't deserve that.

James.


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2010/12/4 2:19Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Phenetheus' vision

Hello brother,

Your post was a fascinating and vivid example of what I mean concerning tricky areas of the prophetic. I've had a dream that turned lucid halfway through. I didn't even know such a thing existed before then and it was a tough area to research and get solid info on.

I have a few thoughts on the vision though. Please payerfully consider these things which I think may be helpful insights.

To begin with I want to speak about the significance of the winds and their direction. Throughout scripture there is much cryptic talk about winds and their direction. If you do a quick search on an internet bible on the wind you may be suprised by how many times it appears in prophecy in the Old Testament. The significance of each direction is consistant in scripture and it is also consistent in your vision.

Consider the plagues of Moses. We know the story, God instructed Moses to call for an east wind and it brought locust which destroyed the crops in Egypt. The crops were in a litteral sense, the works of the Egyptians. After that, the Lord commanded Moses to call a wind, this wind picked up all the locust and cast them into the sea.

Now to interprate the significance of each wind we must consider it's usage throughout scripture. I did such a study years ago but my notes are not with me at the moment but i will for the time being share with you my conclusions and then if the Lord permits I will expound on it later.

The east wind always represents the destroying of evil works or the works of the devil. In this case, and usually in scripture, Egypt represents Satan's kingdom and Babylon represents the world. So we can see that the destroying of the Egyptians crops is symbolic for the destroying of the works of the devil.

Again throughout scripture locust represent demons. So we see that the removing of locust is symbolic for the removing of demons. From this we have that the east wind removes the works of the devil whereas the west wind removes the actual devils.

The North direction is tricky to describe vividly but from Ezekiel's vision in chapter 1 we have the vision of God Himself coming from the North. The North wind always represents God or God's presence.

I hope this useful to you, please let me know what you think.

James.


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2010/12/4 4:28Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Thank you all

Jimm, I don't think I ever said anything about your calling, or gave an opinion on whatever ministry you have or don't have. I've only talked about the theology of prophetic ministry, and the topic of why prophetic movements in the church have largely derailed. If my posts implicate you, then such was unintentional. But if they imply you are in error, then such is God's word to you to probably repent. But I don't know you, and have no knowledge of your ministry whatsoever.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/12/4 10:58Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re:

KingJimmy

Thank you for that clarification my brother, I may have misunderstood your posts to be in response to my posts but I realise now that your statements were general statements against false prophets. Be blessed.


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2010/12/4 11:19Profile





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