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That is an excellent point, SNUF. I need to incorporate that into my articles.
Law based = fear motivated = payment
Grace based = love motivated = giving
The tithe is the Lord's. (So keep your hands off it)
If you don't tithe you are a God-robber. (Robbers are bad)
A curse will come on you if you don't tithe. (Pure fear)
Tithing rebukes the devourer. (Devil is gonna get you because you missed your payment. Forget about your landowner and paying your mortgage, the devil is worse).
The tithe is the connection to the covenant. (No tithe and you are not in covenant)
The tithe redeems the other 90-percent. (No tithe and you lose the other 90%)
Tithing qualifies you to receive more from God. (No tithe and you don't receive squat).
Tithing puts God first in your life. (No tithe and you are not a committed christian).
If you don't tithe, God will take that 10-percent from you. (Ouch! Take, take, take)
If everyone tithed, churches would have plenty of money.
(It's your fault that churches are impoverished. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution).
Heaven will be shut up against you if you don't tithe.
(Ouch again!! Please God, I have to pay my bills or else they will throw me out on the street).
Miracle testimonies prove that tithing is God's will.
(You have no miracles in your life because God is not getting your payment. No wonder TV preachers are nauseating).
| 2010/12/2 0:39|
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I remember only one or two sermons where a pastor preached about the tithe, yet the thrust was that one should give not grudgingly nor of necessity for God loves a cheerful giver.
The church of whom I am a part of does not have any paid staff, the facilities are very simple - no piano or organ or guitars or drums!!! We have a plural leadership and the only monetary compensation they get is where a love offering is taken once a month and it is divided out among them. When the offering is taken not one word is said about 'receiving tithes and offerings'. Everything shared is voluntary and no records are kept by anyone as to who gives what and how much.
What are our offerings used for? Pay supplies including VBS materials, utilities, missions, and a love offering once a month for the leadership team. Alms offerings are taken quarterly to assist anonymously those who have needs amongst us or among our circle of acquaintances.
From my observation locally and reading this forum, the churches where the tithe is enforced is among churches where they have salaried staff and huge buildings. Not all churches have salaried staff nor expensive buildings.
I remember well discussing something like this with the husband of a client of mine years ago. In his mind he could not fathom a church that did not tax its members. He was totally confused. And it has been only in recent years that we became aware of this practice. So, here I am 63 YO and never knew this was done until about 15 years ago!
| 2010/12/2 8:44||Profile|
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That is an impressive Church you attend Ginny.
The facility that I attended years ago did somewhat that way. When our Pastor wasn't preaching legalism, his Church thrived and people gave abundantly, as soon as he started on the legalism which he confused with holiness, the church emptied and of course the funds dwindled. He never learned anything in his years of ministry that what he was teaching was damnable.
This church had all the misfits that the other Churches around us didn't want, and I was one of them (hehe). And these people came out of abusive churches to begin with and our Pastor had a big heart for these people, but he also had his fears. When he preached grace, love thrived, you could feel it. There was no loose living, or people barking like dogs, this was as genuine as genuine could be. But oh the garbage that man preached when it came to legalism, how he tried to incorporate that into holiness. What he seemed to fail seeing (he was naturally blind) that people were holy. I miss the love of God in that Church. We moved as one. But you'd think he'd learn. He's dead now and is quite aware that what he had done to people was not the will of God at all, probably lost a great deal of his reward, but saved just the same, thank God for that.
Don't want to end on a sour note, he was a good friend and Pastor and God did great things in that Church. I had a stomach condition to which he called out in a service and I went up for prayer and was instantly healed. I've seen many healings, miracles and received the foundational teachings of the word of God of justification and sanctification to which I was privileged to hear. He was a great teacher, but he had his faults. I miss my friend.
| 2010/12/2 10:13|
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I attend a church that doesn't force people to tithe. But the main pastor doesnt seem to understand that its a requirement of OT law. I tried to explain to a deacon and she went balistic as she seemed to think some kinda reciprocity was in order because she gave 10%(she is an amazing person all the same) in bible study i said as new testament believers we are not under obligation to ordinances of the law and my head almost got decapitated.
Anyone who reads the bible honestly and consistently would know this for themselves (*was in bondage for years*) the issue is really not with tithing its with a proper understanding of the OLD and New Covenants
experientially, and i dont use this as a basis for my conclusion of what the truth is. I have seen God move much more in my life than when i was in bondange.
| 2010/12/2 11:01||Profile|
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Brother Pilgrim I probably could add to your list of tithe fear preaching. But something I believe is worse than that fear is the false promises teachings. One of my former pastors did a message on the sons of Judah(Praise) and when you are in a praising spirit about things God does things in reaction to them. One he pulled was one of the names having to do with corn or something and he said if you are praising God with your material things He would prosper your business. UGH!
There was also the use of a witness that decided to keep their tithe and later something terrible happening that week that cost them the exact amount they were to tithe. The majority focuses on the negative but I started to focus on the positive such as God didn't tell me to give because He knew my tire was going to blow out and I was going to need the money thank you LORD! The guilt one feels in those situations is the disapproval of man rather the disapproval of God.
Yet another assumption that needs to get pushed through is the assumption that if you aren't giving tithes to a church you aren't giving anything at all and are stingy with your money. I know there are some out there like that but from what I have seen in my finiances I actually give even more then 10% a great deal of the time.
I have learned that God is more pleased with me because of what His Son did on the Cross and my cheerful attitude and love for Him as opposed to angry with me because I didn't give Him His cut of my check. My attitude in giving now that I have stepped out of that system is not only more cheerful but more abundantly. My wife and I enjoy finding new ways of giving to others :) ITS actually EXCITING and A JOY! No More Shackles No More Chains No More Bondage I AM FREE! :)
| 2010/12/2 11:22||Profile|
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Yeah, preachers tell these anecdotal stories to their people that communicate BAD things will happen if God does not get his "Cut". Very Mafioso, ain't it?
"Yo, where's my cut. I won't protect you from the other hood, if I don't get my cut. Not only that, but I will come down on you, too."
Sounds like the Godfather, rather than Father God.
When you are set free to live in God's grace you actually do give more and you find yourself giving personally and not into the black hole of an organization.
Also, you are responding to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and not the compelling of man.
Thanks. More good info to help God's children.
| 2010/12/2 11:39|
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"Sounds like the Godfather, rather than Father God."
This play on words made me laugh super hard. If Father God is like the Godfather wouldn't that make money hungry preachers His goons?
| 2010/12/2 11:49||Profile|
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I don't know what happened to Pilgrim777... but let me say that this teaching he brought to us on Tithing is one of the VERY BEST postings I have ever seen or read here on Sermon Index... and I've been reading this forum for a long time.
He articulates exactly what I have been trying to formulate in my mind and heart for years about tithing.
Where ever your are Pilgrim777, thank you thank you thank you. May God get the glory.
| 2010/12/5 6:28|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
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Pilgrim777 was removed from the sermonindex forums. I have not even had time to review or read his teachings on tithing but he "anti-bill gothard" stance amongst other problems was the reason for him being asked to leave.
Thos who despise authority or do not respect rules are classified in a bad way in the New Testament. The way that piglrim was trying to get people to be free or not under the moderators and rules on sermonindex was not good. And his constant questioning of the rules.
May we be known and emphasis the work and life of our Lord Jesus Christ and not be caught in ism's.
I am locking this thread.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2010/12/5 8:42||Profile|