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mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

"Twinkling lights do not draw souls to the Lord Jesus Christ. They draw our eyes from the target."

White_Stone I would say this is an assumption, twinkling lights can draw someone to the Lord Jesus if one has the correct heart about it. When I see and think of "twinkly Lights" especially in this holiday season I think of the Star the three wise men followed to find the Lord Jesus.

Also think of the Light that came into the World that night. Its about perspective, in my opinion an assumption is just another word for a judgment.

For you I understand twinkling lights may not do that for you but it certainly causes my heart to think of our Saviour amd draw closer. And if I were a betting man I would bet this is the same for others.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2010/11/30 2:07Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

White-Stone wrote:

Quote:
To all posters (except MaryJane)



Hey, I posted about Pizza or Tacos. :-P


_________________
Christiaan

 2010/11/30 2:08Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

Many people's objections to their observing Christmas and Easter or Resurrection Day object to it because they say it is a Christianized version of a pagan holiday. Another poster informed us that all the titles we give our months, days are pagan names....

In the OT we read where Esther delivered her people from certain death. This was a remarkable event. To memorialize this event, the Jews set aside a day (or days) and called it Purim. Nowhere in the Prophets does one read where God chastised his people for celebrating this event. Seems to me one can take lessons from this...People love to memorialize important events - consider July 4th, Independence Day; Labor Day in honor of the working man, famous people's birthday throughout the year; Memorial day for the ones who served in the Military....perhaps this could teach us something?

God bless you all, regardless whether you celebrate this holiday or not.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/11/30 4:09Profile









 Re:

I think we need to be respectful of people who choose not to celebrate Christmas. Whether or not someone is saved has no bearing whatsoever on which holidays they celebrate. If it draws someone closer to the Lord to ignore Christmas then who are we to question that? That is between them and God.

At the same time, those who choose to refrain need to be careful not to sit in judgement on those who do celebrate Christmas. That can happen too. It's very easy to begin to think that we're taking the spiritual high road, especially when we believe the Lord has called us to do something that radically goes against the grain.

If you refrain from Christmas... refrain from it unto the Lord.

If you celebrate Christmas... celebrate it unto the Lord.

Christmas is not something that you can point to in scripture and say "we must celebrate it", nor can you point to it in scripture and say "we must not celebrate it".

But what we can point to in scripture is this:

Romans 14:5 "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

So be fully convinced in your own mind. Don't waffle. If you believe God has called you not to celebrate Christmas... and you do, then you sin against your own conscience.

If you believe it's ok to celebrate it, but you hold back to impress someone else... you sin against your own conscience.

Let's respect each other on this issue. BOTH SIDES.

And everyone needs to cease being so sensitive, thin skinned and easily offended. Really? We're going to get offended by something some stranger on an internet forum says to us... about Christmas? Really? Let's commit to getting over ourselves.

Oh... and Merry Christmas to those who partake.

For those who don't... Happy December 25th.

 2010/11/30 6:20
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Good word HomeskoolDad

Also "Let's commit to getting over ourselves."

This is my new year resolution ;)




_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2010/11/30 6:31Profile









 Re: Christmas is evil


Hi HSD,

While I hear your plea for us to get over ourselves, and you made a very good post ...

Quote:
And everyone needs to cease being so sensitive, thin skinned and easily offended. Really?

I think you're underestimating the amount of stress it can cause a convert to re-evaluate Christmas (and other assumptions they may have made), and to LIVE OUT the meaning, in practice of their new convictions - especially Christmas - which may greatly affect other members of a family, and their reputation amongst their nearest and dearest.

Cheerfully failing to live up to one's loved ones expectations, is not always easy for a mum or dad.

 2010/11/30 7:29









 Re:

Yep... you're right. It is hard. It's called "counting the cost". Now, I am of the mindset that it's ok, and even wonderful, to celebrate Christmas. I recommend all who do do so with zest and zeal. But if someone chooses not to, that's ok too!

But I cringe when you say "Cheerfully failing to live up to one's loved ones expectations, is not always easy for a mum or dad." because Jesus made it clear that there was a cost to following Him, and sometimes that cost was division in the family unit.

Jesus unifies His people, but He divides His people from those who are not His people.

It's interesting that you even mentioned "mum or dad". Check this out (Jesus' own words too!):

Luke 9:57-62 As they were going along the road, someone said to him, "I will follow you wherever you go." And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head." To another he said, "Follow me." But he said, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father." And Jesus said to him, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead. But as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God." Yet another said, "I will follow you, Lord, but let me first say farewell to those at my home." Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

I would venture to say that if one's faith does not cause division among one's unsaved relatives and friends... then one needs to examine themself and see if they are truly in the faith to begin with.

 2010/11/30 7:49
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re: Greetings Pilgrim

Greetings Pilgrim

I read over your post very early this morning and have been praying about how I might reply to you. I wanted to do so in the right heart.

you wrote

Quote:
MaryJane, I am sorry but often we are the cause of many of our own struggles. And often we take upon ourselves false burdens and convictions. In my fellowship, we have people from many backgrounds that have learned to love each other and been delivered from many false burdens and convictions.



You wrote the above as if to imply anyone who does not celebrate Christmas must be holding on to false convictions or creating their own struggles?? Not sure if you realize but what you shared here comes across very judgmental and does not reflect a very loving heart. In my post I did not say anything about my own view of the day, nor did I say that it was wrong for those who feel led to take part in the traditions of the holiday I merely pointed out that for some it can be a very difficult day. For those who do not feel led to take part just finding a place to fellowship can be very difficult. With so many plays, choirs,teas, luncheons and Christmas things happening the entire month some feel very cut off...I am not saying that those who celebrate should drop their plans and not take part just acknowledging that for some it can be a very lonely time of year. As you said celebrating Christmas is not something we are instructed to do in the Bible so for many it gives them pause and they go to God in prayer seeking His leading on the matter. Perhaps you might reread your post and check your heart, consider the words you chose and think how they might have come across to a believer who is struggling to walk in what the Lord has laid upon their heart?? As you said there is liberty in Christ Jesus to celebrate and those who do so should walk in what the Lord is showing them, but there is no liberty to mock another believer for attempting to walk in faith the things the Lord is showing them...sadly some of these posts on this thread do come across as very mocking and honestly its just kind of sad to see.

I wish all my brothers and sisters here on SI a wonderful day and pray many blessings on you.

God Bless
mj

 2010/11/30 8:44Profile









 Re:

MaryJane,

Thanks for this clarification.

"...I am not saying that those who celebrate should drop their plans and not take part just acknowledging that for some it can be a very lonely time of year."

I wasn't sure where you were coming from. I also, don't believe that those who wish not to celebrate Christmas are legalistic. It is a worldly holiday, afterall. And I do respect people's convictions, meaning I would not flaunt something in front of them.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

There are also people that push "Biblical" HolyDays, and yet we are not under any compulsion to observe them, either, even though that is becoming more and more, a prevailing teaching today in some circles.

Whether we observe or don't observe, we should do all to the glory of God.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I know it is very lonely for some. My experience is that it is usually because of family dynamics surrounding the holidays.

I had a Plymouth Brethren friend whose parents were missionaries. His parents celebrated Christmas and had a Christmas tree. When he grew up, his convictions changed and he would never bring his wife or young children to visit his parents during Christmas vacation. He was young and trying to prove something to his Mom and Dad.

It was a lonely time for his wife, kids and parents. And I always thought it was so unnecessary.

There is such a thing as convictions and there is such a thing as heavy handed spiritual abuse.

We major on non-essentials and forget the most important things about walking in love.

I am sorry if I came across judgemental. I have friends that do and don't celebrate Christmas. It is not big deal to me. It is a big deal to some of those who don't celebrate. Some of my friends who don't celebrate it are very judgmental about it, but I could careless about it one way or the other. There was a time when I did not celibrate either, because I thought it was EVIL. But, the only thing that was evil was in my own heart.

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

But, I realized I was getting judgemental towards those who did celebrate it and thinking I was being obedient and more spiritual. It actually never added one cubit to my spiritual stature.

I just hate to see Christians alienate one another over non-essentials and I have determined not to alienate anyone whether they celebrate or don't celebrate.

Anytime you are alienated from loved ones or alienate loveds ones, it is lonely. It is just a fact of life based on, yes, people's personal convictions. Sadly, much of it happens around the holidays when people want to get together with their families.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

I have seen brothers want to make very strong statements to their lost parents or friends and rather than exude the fragrance of Christ and drip with fruit, they go the other way and prove to the lost that they are Christian, by the the things that they DON'T DO, rather than being known for the Fruit of the Spirit.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

 2010/11/30 9:02
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

Division among family over Christmas...we know all about that.

Neither one of us works to impose it on the other...we have learned to accept this as a reality and have learned to appreciate each other in spite of these differences. This thing cuts both ways. Both have to submit to the conscience of the other without making the other feel guilty for doing what they do. This is possible with the abiding presence of the Hoy Spirit.

Have a blessed day!

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/11/30 9:45Profile





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