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mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

No worries, God opened a door so I graciously took it. Besides I didn't be forced to submit to something I truly don't believe.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2010/11/29 18:12Profile
JB1968
Member



Joined: 2009/8/31
Posts: 416
Ohio USA

 Re:

Tithing predated the law. Abraham tithed-he gave them to Mechizedek. He knew that he should, so he freely gave. I do not know that it is part of the ceremonial law. Malachi talked about robbing God and there is a promise given to those who give. God said He would bless us if we are faithful. Jesus, when rebuking the pharisees about keeping the littlest laws, and forgetting about mercy etc. did not rebuke them for tithing but commended them -Matthew 23:23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Since Jesus approved of tithing we cannot just say that it is OT. "God loveth a cheerful giver." If we are faithful to God, He will always take care of us. I've proved Him true.
People give when they want to. Many want the blessings of the church, but do not want to contribute to its support.


_________________
James

 2010/11/29 18:33Profile
trueblue
Member



Joined: 2009/9/1
Posts: 62


 Re:

Jb1968..Circumcision pre-dated the law..so shall we continue in circumcision also.Tithing was very much a part of the ceremonial law my friend. Jesus when speaking of tithing in Matt 23:23 was highlighting their hypocrisy and do not forget that they were still under the law..so therefore of course Jesus commended them to keep it as He came not to abolish the law but to fulfil it.But things obviously would change when He died and was resurrected.Study the teaching of Paul my friend...blessings!!

 2010/11/29 18:55Profile









 Re: PREACH THIS TO YOUR PASTOR...[ one may listen,,,]

"I believe we are to give freely, Cheerfully, and in secret. "

"I don't believe tithing in the New Testament sense is biblical."....mguldner

Psalms 29
1 Give unto the LORD, O you mighty ones,
Give unto the LORD glory and strength.
2 Give unto the LORD the glory due to His name;
Worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

When I think of giving to the Lord the "GLORY", I THINK OF MY SPIRITUAL DEVOTION; by faith I worship Him.

When I think of worshipping the Lord with my STRENGTH, I think of my substance, and my money, which He has so graciously provided to me. It's all His anyhow, so I want to live with an open hand, especially unto Him, in all circumstances.
JESUS SPEAKS... MATTHEW 6

1. "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4. That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.".......................

"I believe we are to give freely, Cheerfully, and in secret. "...MGULDNER

Apparently, so did Jesus."Let thy ALMS be in secret."

We are all priests unto God, and the Priest class is the Universal ministry class, even unto the least of the brethren. A nation, if you will.

1Peter 2
9 "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."

We are all...[SISTERS INCLUDED! ] A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, AND A HOLY NATION.

There is no need to support a "ministry class." It just creates a separation between the brethren; a division of the qualified and the not qualified. Men use their position to build their kingdoms, every time. Horsey manure.

The true:
Acts 20..Paul's exhortation and example about money to the Ephesian PASTORS;

"Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

33 I have not coveted anyone’s silver or gold or clothing.

34 You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions.!!!!

35 In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’ ” !!!!...PAUL THE APOSTLE.

BY WORKING WITH HIS HANDS, PROVIDING AS THE FATHER HE WAS, PAUL EXPLAINED THE NEW TESTAMENT PATTERN OF GIVING AND RECEIVING.

THE PASTORS WORK AND GIVE TO THE WEAK, AND RECEIVE A BLESSING.





 2010/11/29 19:06









 Re:

Cheapskates also use the scripture to justify not giving to God's work and as a result they give next to nothing.

They will only give when "led". Not surprisingly they are almost never led to give anything of substance.

 2010/11/29 19:11
JB1968
Member



Joined: 2009/8/31
Posts: 416
Ohio USA

 Re:

I have tithed for years because I believe it to be Biblical and I want to please the Lord. Also, I desire to support the work of God. No one twists my arm to give, and I drop it in the offering plate just like others who contribute. God has always taken care of us even when things were tight. We put God first and He has made sure all the bills were paid.

I have no clue who Tom Brown is, but this is a good answer.

"Is Tithing New Testament?

Today’s Question: One area that I am researching is the Tithe and offering. I know very well what Malachi 3:7-12 teaches that according to the Law if a believer falls short then they have robbed God and fall under a curse. Paul wrote to the Galatians in Galatians. 3:13 telling them they had been redeemed from the cruse of the Law.

The main point of Malachi 3 is often over looked. The prophet was telling the Jews to turn their hearts to God and give with love so the ministries would be fully supplied. I know that God wants us to give—and I believe in the law of reciprocity—and I know we need to support our local church, orphans, widows, etc. Here’s my question shouldn’t support and giving be from the heart and not because we are under a mandatory legal system? What are your views on Tithes, offerings and giving?

Brother Keith

Bible Answer: You asked a great question. I get this question all the time.

Tithing began before the law was introduced. The Law simply regulated the tithe. Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law, and according to Romans 4:12 we are to walk in the footsteps of the faith of Abraham. If tithing was good for him, it should be good for us, too.

We give tithes like Abraham gave them—not by the Law but by faith. And beside that, if the people of God paid ten percent before the Law, and ten percent under the Law, shouldn't we, who live by grace, be doing any less when we have a better covenant (Heb 7:22).

There is a passage in Hebrews, which deals with this issue directly. It is Hebrews 7:8:

In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living.

Melchizedek received Abraham’s tithe. The Hebrew writer shows that Melchizedek is a prefigure of Christ. We can conclude that just as Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek we give a tithe to Christ who is declared to be living.

Some people think this is a new issue. It is as old as the second century when more and more Gentiles were being converted. The early Jewish believers had no problem with tithing since they had done it under the Law and gave it to the priests. They simply gave their tithe to the elders of the church and did by love. However, as the church became less Jewish this issue came up to the church fathers. They answered the question of tithing with Matthew 23:23:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Notice Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter (justice, mercy and faithfulness), without neglecting the former (tithing)." The fathers argued, and rightful so, that Jesus word ends the discussion. Since Jesus said not to neglect the former—being tithing—then no believer should neglect tithing. I wholeheartedly agree!

Some argue that Jesus words are not applicable to us today, because Jesus was under the Law and spoke to those under the Law. Their theory goes something like this: Jesus was giving an instruction to the Jews so His words are not binding to us.

The problem with this interpretation is that these teachers are bringing Christ down to the level of a Jewish prophet or Teacher of the Law. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, so this means every word that comes out of His mouth is eternal. He cannot say anything without it being “spiritual law” and everlasting. Jesus emphasizes this point by saying, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matt 24:35). These supposed Bible teachers are making the words of Jesus pass away—obsolete and out of date. Besides, these same teachers pick and choose which teachings of Christ in the gospels they believe is applicable to us. I notice that even these teachers agree that most of Christ’ teachings are for us; however, because they are predisposed against tithing, they have had to come up with an excuse for not obeying the clear word of Christ in Mathew 23:23.

As a believer, you have to show who your Lord is! Is it the teachers who tell you tithing is not New Testament and who tell you that Jesus word on the subject is out of date; or is it Jesus who clearly told us not to neglect tithing? No modern teacher has the right to tell you to disobey Jesus instruction on tithing. Period!

Even if the only passages in the New Testament was Jesus word, then that would be sufficient, however, I want to present other New Testament passages on the subject. Let’s look at Paul’s teaching on giving.

Paul also uses the pattern of tithing under the law in 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 and says,

Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Paul argues that just as the priests got their food from the tithes of the people, so the preachers should live the same way. This passage clearly shows the mentality of the apostle and his understanding of carrying over the concept of tithing into the church. The passage often used to contradict this is 2 Corinthians 9:7:

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

The argument goes something like this: "Each believer has a right to decide for himself what to give and should not be told what percentage he should contribute."

The problem with this argument is that the above passage is not dealing with giving to support the church, but rather giving to the poor. Under the Law, giving to the poor was a freewill offering. The Law commanded freewill offerings as well as tithes:

But you are to seek the place the LORD your God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go; there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. (Deut 12:5-6)

It is quite inconsistent for people to appeal to freewill offerings yet claim that tithing has been abolished. Both tithing and freewill offerings were incorporated in the Law as the above passage shows, but they preceded the Law, thus they both should be practiced. The burden of proof is placed on those who teach that tithing has been abolished. If so, where in the New Testament does it clearly say that tithing has been abolished?


One last thing, notice the resemblance of the language Paul uses in the first passage in Galatians and compare it with the Old Testament passage about tithing:
Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor. (Gal 6:6)

And you and the Levites and the aliens among you shall rejoice in all the good things the LORD your God has given to you and your household. When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied. (Deut 26:11-12)

Galatians 6 is dealing with giving to the teacher of the gospel and he uses the same language about the Levites receiving the tithe of the people and he calls it "all good things." This is pretty good internal evidence that the early church tithed to the ministers of the gospel, although, I admit it is not explicit evidence."


_________________
James

 2010/11/29 19:23Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i was waiting on annanias and his wife to give their views to make this complete. people want the power that the church had in acts when they held everything in common but hold on to every penny they can. if you want to know if a man loves his new girlfriend look at his check book.how about the love of Christ and His people...the love for the widowed and orphans...the love for the poor... the missionary zeal...the love for the community you live in. maybe this is why the jewish people prosper financially in most areas...the tithe is given in advance for the year based on the previous year in some orth.syn. jimp

 2010/11/29 19:25Profile









 Re: To generalize the true cheapskate. A prophetic gift or...

"Cheapskates also use the scripture to justify not giving to God's work and as a result they give next to nothing.

They will only give when "led". Not surprisingly they are almost never led to give anything of substance."Rev_Enue"
...................................................

Really! How do you know this? In context,then are you saying that those led to give are cheapskates, that pretend to be a giver, so that they can chinse God?

You either have a universal but bitter prophetic gift, or you are exceedingly ignorant.

Those I know who give by being led, and in secret, are laviously extravavagant in their giving...and exceedingly joyful and loving.[ I know because they have given to me in secret on missions, etc.]

But I'll tell them what you know about them. I'm sure they will find this statement as profound as myself.

 2010/11/29 19:43









 Re:

You are so friendly brothernom. You exude so much love and understanding.
How did you become so grate?

 2010/11/29 19:48
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
maybe this is why the jewish people prosper financially in most areas



The Jewish people prosper financially because the Lord promised to bless them, and He is a covenant keeping God. It's not because they DO anything.

I know many Christians who tithe on absolutely every cent they make, and do not prosper financially in the slightest.

Now to say that people who don't believe in tithing don't give much of anything... That's kind of dangerous ground man. Unfortunately they ones who give will not blow their own trumpet to try and prove this statement incorrect.

PS Mathew, you ever listen to that sermon I sent you?

 2010/11/29 19:58Profile





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