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I agree the life of Christ in us, is attained by the proclamation of the truth and is maintained by obedience to the truth (Him).

But you do agree also, that the truth can be proclaimed, but if it does not get past our heads into our hearts then no fruit will come, right? We see that all around us today.

There are sermons, seminars, books, tapes, CDs, special guests, "anointed" speakers, etc., etc., and yet look at the condition of the so-called church.

Something is wrong. Something is definitely not working. We have more materials than anyone has ever had, and yet the same cannot be said about the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. Over 12,000 church splits a year and people that proclaim the name of Jesus and His truth, cannot get together and be one in Him.

 2010/11/15 14:02









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Well... who is the revealer of truth? God.

If the truth has not been revealed to a man's heart then it is because God, in His sovereignty, has decided not to reveal it to him... at least not yet.

A man may know the truth in his head, but not have it revealed to his heart. That is completely in God's hands.

Our systems and programs designed to reveal truth to man will never work on their own.

 2010/11/15 14:14









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Something is wrong. Something is definitely not working. We have more materials than anyone has ever had, and yet the same cannot be said about the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. Over 12,000 church splits a year and people that proclaim the name of Jesus and His truth, cannot get together and be one in Him.



In response to this part in particular... whats wrong is that the vast majority of "Christians" do not know the Word of God, and have no desire to study to know the Word of God. AND... the vast majority of "Christians" have no prayer life.

So-called "Christians" are not walking with God. Thats what is wrong.

 2010/11/15 14:52









 Re: Why True Protestants REJECT the pope!


learn stated

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The thing is the priest won't be able to do that because the church will not allow it.

I hear what you're saying. One could speculate many possible reasons that a person would keep quiet and stay put, but I'm unwilling to conclude that we can assume they are not right with God. Only time, and the Judge of all, can make that call. Most people would eventually find it as intolerant as the man in the example you gave.
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If you want to know how it is like to try to do that, you can look up Richard Bennett, a former Catholic priest who came to know God during that time and that he tried to do just that but eventually had to leave the church.

 2010/11/15 14:56









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I hear what you're saying. One could speculate many possible reasons that a person would keep quiet and stay put, but I'm unwilling to conclude that we can assume they are not right with God. Only time, and the Judge of all, can make that call. Most people would eventually find it as intolerant as the man in the example you gave.



Let's be clear on something... what I said was if they are trusting in the teachings of the Catholic Church for salvation... they are as lost as a person can be. They are not saved by how sincerely they believe in Catholic doctrine, or by how much they love the god of the Catholic Church... or by how devout they are.

They are only saved by grace alone, through faith alone... in Jesus Christ alone. If they are truly saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone then the Catholic Church says that they are condemmned to hell (anathema). The Catholic Church's words, not mine. I'm just quoting.

And one of the evidences that they have been regenerated is they will grow spiritually, and at some point God will lead them out of their false church as He reveals truth to them.

If they claim to have been regenerated but do not grow in the Lord, and in knowledge, and they are content to stay in a false religion then their salvation is suspect.

 2010/11/15 15:14









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Let's be clear on something... what I said was if they are trusting in the teachings of the Catholic Church for salvation... they are as lost as a person can be. They are not saved by how sincerely they believe in Catholic doctrine, or by how much they love the god of the Catholic Church... or by how devout they are.



It is true that we cannot say who is saved or not.

We cannot say that someone in the Catholic church who is listening to false doctrine is not saved anymore than you can say that someone in a Protestant church who is listening to false doctrine is not saved.

However we can say and the Gospel is clear that salvation does not come by trusting in your own works of righteousness for justification.

I believe that the Holy Spirit is always trying to lead believers to truth and away from error.

 2010/11/15 15:27









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In response to this part in particular... whats wrong is that the vast majority of "Christians" do not know the Word of God, and have no desire to study to know the Word of God.

AND... the vast majority of "Christians" have no prayer life. So-called "Christians" are not walking with God. Thats what is wrong.



Bingo! They know the Word of God as taught by the precepts of men and think that they know the Word as taught from God, the Holy Spirit.

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

We need to make sure we are not following the precepts of men. We could be and we should always be on the alert for mixture (leaven) in our lives.

 2010/11/15 15:31









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I think we're on the same page, dude... it just took us awhile to realize it! lol

 2010/11/15 15:37









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It takes awhile to get there with text. But in a room together it would take 2 minutes. A lot of time and writing goes into communication on this site. I am seriously considering cutting back. Blessings to you, Pilgrim

 2010/11/15 16:32









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Yea, and a lot of misunderstandings and arguments happen here that would not otherwise if people were speaking face to face. A lot gets lost.

Glad we were patient with each other, brother.

 2010/11/15 17:01





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