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todd
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Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

What bothered me so much about this article is that it is all opinion based (as far as I can tell). And of course Strom has just as much a right to his opinion as anyone, though I don't know how justified he is in sharing it publically. But he is accountable to the Lord for that.

Obviously Andrew had certain expectations going into the conference. He felt he had clearly heard from God. It seems he was hoping for the whole "old-fashioned" ("classic") repentence paradigm, and when that didn't happen then he was bothered. And he was bothered by the dancing and it's supposedly pagan feel. Though, once again, he only offers his opinions. And what else can he do, I don't think there exists any Scriptural support for his argument against the movement. They didn't repent in the right way in his opinion. They didn't dance "right". They didn't do the money thing "right".

His arguments seem purely subjective.

Where he clearly seems to be unjustified is where he makes absolute claims like, "instead of REPENTANCE, people are getting all kinds of counterfeit spiritual experiences." And how exactly does he know that for sure?

No, I'm [not] concluding that Strom is for sure unjustified in this situation overall. But if I'm just going by that message he sent out, it sure seems likely.

But like Greg pointed out:
"All I can think of in these times is 'keep looking to Jesus' and all the rest of this looks like trivia."

Same theory on the other side of the issue.

 2004/11/4 1:00Profile
jouko
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Joined: 2003/10/9
Posts: 172
Ex-England colony of Australia

 Re:

2Ti 3:1 But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good,
2Ti 3:4 traitors, headstrong, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 And even as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also withstand the truth. Men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further. For their folly shall be evident unto all men, as theirs also came to be.

2Pe 3:1 This is now, beloved, the second epistle that I write unto you; and in both of them I stir up your sincere mind by putting you in remembrance;
2Pe 3:2 that ye should remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and the commandments of the Lord and Saviour through your apostles:
2Pe 3:3 knowing this first, that in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


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Jouko Hakola

 2004/11/4 2:39Profile
lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
Sweden

 Re:





Apply the most simplified and the most profound test of them all:
Would the Lord have done the same thing as these prophets and evangelists do in the name of the Lord?
If we applied this rule and plumb line in our ministries and meetings the Hinn’s and the Cain’s would be out of business before they even had acquired some sort of name. Or, perhaps they would have been corrected and made to be a blessing to the Church.
Lars


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Lars Widerberg

 2004/11/4 3:03Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

I have felt for a while that there would be a prophetic movement emerging, one that will desire anonaminity, live uncompromising, rend heaven with their prayers, and lead multitudes to christ. They'll go by a name too....CHRISTIANS!! ;-)


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Aaron Ireland

 2004/11/4 6:21Profile
lwpray
Member



Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
Sweden

 Re:



What if this peculiar brand of humans has been around ever since Pentecost?
I suspect that our hunt for something new, something other, is in vain.
What we have been and are looking for has been in existence all the time.
Some of us even belong to this strange group of sojourners.
Some of us have our home within that realm, not making much noise but making vast difference in areas that count.
Lars W.


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Lars Widerberg

 2004/11/4 6:28Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Do you know this hymn? a little church in every house


O might my lot be cast with these,
The least of Jesus’ witnesses!


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Ron Bailey

 2004/11/4 7:42Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

What if this peculiar brand of humans has been around ever since Pentecost?
I suspect that our hunt for something new, something other, is in vain.
What we have been and are looking for has been in existence all the time.



Exactly! Which is why I have ultimately rejected the prophetic movement because they keep claiming something is now being restored... which is simply not so. The prophetic has always existed. It's acceptance amongst men though, has not. Only of late did the populace begin to embrace that which has typically been shunned.

Is perhaps God moving in our generation as He has not in the last 1000 yrs? Perhaps, and maybe he is raising up more prophets. But what He has not been doing is trying to get the ecclesiastical lords to embrace them so that they include them in their official polity. Rather, God only raises up prophets to establish Christ. Likewise with the apostolic, God is only concerned with establishing Christ.

The wave of apostles and prophets that have come that I have seen thus far have only been interested in establishing themselves instead of Christ. That which is truly apostolic and prophetic is not concerned about establishing their own ministry, but only that of Christ. As Paul said, "We preach Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your bondservants"


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Jimmy H

 2004/11/4 7:56Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I have felt for a while that there would be a prophetic movement emerging, one that will desire anonaminity, live uncompromising, rend heaven with their prayers, and lead multitudes to christ. They'll go by a name too....CHRISTIANS!!



YES!!!!!!!!!!


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Jimmy H

 2004/11/4 7:56Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:



QUOTE:
"God only raises up prophets to establish Christ. Likewise with the apostolic, God is only concerned with establishing Christ.

The wave of apostles and prophets that have come that I have seen thus far have only been interested in establishing themselves instead of Christ. That which is truly apostolic and prophetic is not concerned about establishing their own ministry, but only that of Christ. As Paul said, "We preach Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your bondservants" ...

Amen King Jimmy ... it don't get any plainer than this.

 2004/11/4 8:56Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Yea its pretty amazing brother Strom is doing this. He is going to get alot of flack from MANY people for saying and making this move to seperate completly from it, even when he goes back to New Zealand I wonder how many people he will seperate from there also.. there is alot of deeply entrenched prophetic, charismatic churches in those areas. All I can think of in these times is "keep looking to Jesus" and all the rest of this looks like trivia.



I personally was going to go to this meeting to see what all the stir was about, but there was so many people there I could not get near the place. I am very ignorant of this movement, but what I do know is quite chilling. I hoped also they would REPENT! Thank God I did not get in! who knows how I would have reacted to such blatant madness and diabolical behavior.

In my conversations with Andrew, he has always held out hope that the prophetic movement would get it together. That hope seems to have come to an absolute end. He did not just recently realize this, as we had talked at length of the sickness of the movement before this weekend. Sometimes God has to let a person see for themselves how messed up things really are.

I spent a lot of time earlier in the year with Andrew and only sparingly of late. Honestly, I never felt comfortable with that movement at all. I refused to be numbered among them. For what ever reason, Andrew held out hope for them.

Most most recent conversations with him made this announcement no surprise to me at all. Personally I felt that his identification with them was a serious hindrance to what God wanted him to do; but I just put it in God's hands. It seemed that it was hard for him to let go it seems. He is a very knowledgable and level headed man and you realize that as soon as he starts talking. I could listen to him talk about Finney and Whitfield and past revivals for hours.

I have heard him preach several times this year and in every case the message has been one of repentance and genuine salvation. Strong messages that I have heard only the likes of on SI, never in person. He has not been invited back in most cases. That is an indictment on the churches. None of the messages outdoors or indoors were laced with weird flakey prophetic stuff. He is Pentecostal and that will carry certain things that make people nervous; but all in all, he preaches repentance and revival.

I pray from here on out he preached bold repentance in our city. Here in Kansas City, we need it desperately!

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2004/11/4 9:10Profile





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