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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "Seed"

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 Re:

For the curious, the writer of the Midrash article actually has a more in depth sermon on this site that goes into much greater detail, which can be found here; (as I can sense even by some comments that the authors intent and teaching might have been misunderstood)

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=11893&commentView=itemComments

He'll go into Greek, Hebrew, Church History, and Jewish History, for those of you looking for some solid Biblical teaching on the subject. I would recommend at least giving this one, and maybe a few others of his on the topic, a good listen before you jump to any conclusions (either for or against). It will challenge the mindset and understanding of many perhaps, but that's not always a bad thing.

And as always, if you're curious about this stuff, LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELVES. Don't just deny it on a "gut feeling" or because it challenges the way you've been taught to believe or understand.

 2010/11/11 9:23
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Nasher,

Quote:
I don't believe anyone has answered my actual first question: "If my interpretation is correct then the promise of the land was made to Abraham and Jesus?"



I thought I had answered this in my first post. I don't believe that Paul was referring to the promise of the land, but the blessing of ALL NATIONS through the Seed as written in Genesis 22:18.

It is obvious in Pauls letter to the Galatians that he is not dealing with 'land' issues, either future or past. He is trying to establish 'righteousness by faith', not by law and the context of Galatians 3:16 is shown in Galatians 3:1-14 as the 'blessing of Abraham' being righteousness by faith and the receiving of the Spirit (New Covenant)through Christ's redemption on the cross.

I'm not getting into your second question, as Midrash is a different subject completely and I think has nothing to add to understanding this part of scripture.


_________________
Dave

 2010/11/11 9:33Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Quote:
It is obvious in Pauls letter to the Galatians that he is not dealing with 'land' issues, either future or past.


Are you saying the the promises to Abraham did not include the land?


_________________
Mark Nash

 2010/11/11 9:44Profile









 Nasher

God is Good, God the Holy Ghost is the Brightest Light, the Greatest Counseler, in that He exposes ALL, including a man's heart, and when you wrote this to me:

"If you are Jewish then lucky you...."

your heart is exposed. All can see.

as far as that Mountaintop of a Prayer, The High Priestly Prayer of Jesus in John 17, considering the hundreds of denominations, churches, schisms, and i include that scarlet whore in rome with its man of perdition and its superstition,priestcraft and idolatry, and you deign to fling it at me?...in rebuke?

shameful. you have sinned against a brother.


May God deal with you gently and lovingly.

i have no more to say.

 2010/11/11 10:07
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: Nasher

Saints,

Please keep this discussion free of semetic insinuations and provocations, or it will be terminated. You are reminded to pray for the mind of Christ before submitting your thoughts in this public medium. Thank you.

Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2010/11/11 10:31Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Nasher,

Quote:
Are you saying the the promises to Abraham did not include the land?



Of course the promises to Abraham, (and Issac and Jacob) include the land. What I am saying is that it is not that part of the promises that Paul is talking about. There are promises to the natural decendants of Abraham (incl the land) and there is a much fuller promise to the spiritual Seed of Abraham, which comes as a result of the natural seed. Is not Jesus Christ the Jewish Messiah, of the natural line of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Judah and David?

Now look at Galatians 3:8&9.

8.And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen (Gentiles) through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9.So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

With what are we blessed? What is this promise?

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

God sent forth His Son - THE SEED.

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

The Spirit of Sonship comes from the promised Seed (Christ) to those who belong to Christ. (Galatians 3:29).
So because we belong to The Seed (Christ) we are Abraham's
seed (small s) and heirs of the promise, even heirs of God Himself. It's ALL because of Christ, it's ALL in Him and if we are 'in Him', then we partake of everything He has recieved as the rightful heir of promise.

I don't see what the confusion is.


_________________
Dave

 2010/11/11 11:49Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

HeyDave, You are right, there is confusion. You have made it simple for me.

The seed of Adam is satan, the Seed of Abraham is Christ.

We are blessed with faithful Abraham because of his seed that all the way to Joseph and Mary we have been shown the seed to David and beyond to Joseph and Mary. That Seed is Christ, making Him all man by Mary and All God by The Holy Spirit which came upon Mary and the Seed of the Father our God, making Christ who He is, all God and all man.

Thank you again, and bless the Holy Spirit; for thirty five years this has been confusion for me, and now is revealed.
That is why the Seed, Jesus Christ is so important to those that that are the Body of Christ His Church, because that Seed is now in those that believe. Physically quickened to contain the heavenly Seed of God, His only begotten Son, in us making us now in Spirit as Christ, not Christ Himself, but all that I do, I want to allow Him to come forth in me as me.

Thanks again for the words that the Holy Spirit used in me for this truth.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2010/11/11 13:03Profile









 Re:

Hey you learned brethren, I just found this and am working my way through it.

http://www.mercifultruth.com/links-promisedland.htm

What do you think of it? I think it fits well with this discussion.

btw, posting this link does not mean I agree with the other articles on his site.

 2010/11/11 14:45
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

Nasher, I understand your bewilderment when you say:

"I too agree that the Church has not "replaced" Israel, however I don't know why it keeps getting brought up as no one to my knowledge has suggested this?"

But, as EverestOsama writes "God has a special and specific prophetic plan for the Jews and for Israel?", and not all christians believe that this is the case, although it is clearly taught throughout old and new testaments. This plan specifically concerns Christ and the seed.

Most christians believe that the nation of Israel (Israel according to the flesh) has been replaced IN THIS PRESENT AGE by the church, (including Jews and Gentiles in one body); and this is true. But some believe further that this body, the church is the fulfillment of all the promises and prophesies made in the old testament. When they read old testament prophesies concerning the future blessing of Israel (Isaiah 59 and 60, Zech 12 to 14 and others), they reinterpret them to refer to the blessings bestowed by Christ on the church, and see no future plan for the nation of Israel.

'They do not like the details of prophesy which some have worked out, in which Israel seems to have a separate destiny from the church. And they do not like the implied theology. To their way of thinking,any future blessing of Israel as a nation must be a backward step, a regression in God's plan. They believe that Spiritual realities in Christ have replaced the Jewish types that pointed to them. They believe that the church has replced Israel, the church has become the new Israel and the old Israel is superceeded forever.' (James Boice Romans vol 3)

David


_________________
david

 2010/11/11 19:14Profile









 Re:

Quote:
"God has a special and specific prophetic plan for the Jews and for Israel?",

Why is this word "replacement" being used here? Doesn't any one read how many Jews were being saved in the first century? or do we ignore that?

I find that there is lot of this ignoring of scriptures because it doesn't fit into the way we have been taught. Why can't we accept the fact that the message of the Gospel was presented to the Jew first for the first few years, the gentiles were not even invited in until a few chapters down.

Thousands of Jews received the gospel in one day and then another. While the Jews were being saved, Philip went down in Samaria and preached Christ there and the half breeds of Israel were brought in and then finally the opening the door to the Gentiles with Cornelius household.

This idea that the Church replaces the Jews is stupid since it was to the Jew that God first came by way of Jesus Christ and by Pentecost.

The amalgamation of all races were blended into the body of Christ which is now called body of Christ. Why can't we accept that? Why do we have to strain at a gnat?

What becomes even more crazy is the idea that God has some special thing He wants to with the Jews. Why does God want to bring disunity by tearing apart the body of Christ to which the Jews are connected? Paul doesn't make any distinction between races in Christ, he says that we are all one in Christ Jesus.

I/we are connected to the Jew in the body of Christ, if God does something special for the Jew, we are pulled into that and we become apart of that special thing as well, as we are all connected.

Why can't we accept that?

 2010/11/11 20:44





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