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Spitfire
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Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re: Picking up trash, etc.

Mark, I am reminded of something as I read your post about picking up trash in the parking lot. Joyce Meyers always says she learned to obey God at the grocery store. He made her put her buggies in the proper place and so forth. I don't know if you all read the thread I started on Something Strange Is Happening, but I was telling my son, Ben, who is 24 and in full-time ministry, how I am feeling. He said, "Mom, it isn't what we do, anyway, it's how we glorify God when we do it." You know, whether you eat or drink or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God. God is making all of us good citizens, as well as obedient children. I haven't even begun to confess the silly things God has made me do. I can remember when Ben first went away to college and he was really struggling to establish his own faith in God. He called me one night very distressed. Finally I just said, "Ben, you need to go someplace where you can get alone with God and just have you a good talk." A couple of hours later, he called me all out of breath. He was very excited. He said, "Mom, I went down to the lake here on campus and I was just pouring my heart out to God. I said, 'God, I'll do anything, just tell me what you want me to do. I'll jump in this lake if you want me to. And then, I realized, Mom, that God said, 'Then, jump!' So I jumped in that lake. I backed up about 30 feet and took a flying leap in that lake." I said, "Ben, it's January!" He said, "I don't care if it is, I bout froze my tail off getting back to the dorm, but I feel better now that God and I have settled some things." Isn't that crazy?! God is so awesome! He doesn't need us to be able to do lots of things, he just needs us to be willing. It makes me wanna jump.... throw my hands up...and shout... stomp my feet... and shout...

 2004/11/3 19:05Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

This is a great thread!

All the replies. Loved that about your son Dian!
Brought to mind this from T. A. Sparks:

[i]"Sometimes they will think that the best thing to do is this, but that altogether Other inside will not let them do it. Sometimes they will think that the wise thing is not to do this, and that altogether Other inside keeps saying, in effect, Get on with it! The outer man says, It is madness! I am only courting disaster! The inner Man says, You are to do it! These two cannot be reconciled. He is within and He is altogether other, and our education is to learn to follow Him, to go His way. "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself . . . and follow me."[/i]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3150&forum=31&13]Ravenhill presents Sparks[/url]

Would like to think that it is all encompassing, that there are regular deep seated things that we always do because of who we are now. The things that are just automatic 'obedience's',
courtesy's', and so forth.

It also brings to mind just how well we are Practicing The Presence of God, listening for His still small voice and communing throughout the day...Praying without ceasing. Hope more will jump in here with their thoughts.


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Mike Balog

 2004/11/4 0:05Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: How Is This Explained?

God's voice runs along the principles of his written word.I'll use your election example.His word says not to bid someone God speed who brings a contrary doctrine to you---no don't even let them into your house 3JN 9-11.Both Kerry and Bush made it abundently clear they were both christians.Kerry however was pro abortion and pro gay marriage rights ect... Big question----would God tell you to transgress his word?Answer ----no.You heard from a decieving spirit.The fore mentioned examples you gave all have practicle answers to them,but none of them violate God' character--His word--or His holiness. I believe in our endevor to be spiritual we forget to be human and practicle.A careful read though the book of proverbs will show you the why's in the works of Jesus---why he did this or that---or taught this or that. We need to rember that we all ahve several voices we can listen to---We are after all body soul and spirit.Test ALL things.Think about it.


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D.Miller

 2004/11/4 1:23Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: The little things may not be so little.

Recently I was led to study Hebrews. The question of total obedience is heavily raised here.

Art Katz' Gleanings form the garden - Part 1 & Part 2, and Be ye perfect, are excellent messages on the subject, also. The key theme being, "Choosing that which is perfect over that which seems good."

Personally, I find that it isn't so much the "what" where I tend to fail, but the "when". Timing is key to obedience.


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Aaron Ireland

 2004/11/4 7:01Profile
Spitfire
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Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re: could be wrong

Hi Dohzman. I could be wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong. :-D . Seriously, I don't know what else to do except press on. I tried to reason with myself and God. Maybe I'm just a flake. I'm trying not to be. I will meditate on these things today. Thanks. Dian.

 2004/11/4 7:39Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

There's a puritan saying that goes something like this, "the desire of the heart can be so strong it'll bribe the reason into believing it's the voice of God". I may have been or come off as being to harsh. I'm sorry, but as an evangelist going to the churches across america what I see is sometimes beyond belief.I'll give you an example.I had a christian sister in the Lord ask advice on the area of marrying a unbelieving man.She had all these signs and out ward manifestations that she sited including the peace of God and a personal prophesy.My statement to her was that where the word of God is clear you don't need a Word from God on the matter----you need grace to be obedient from the heart or to conform to his word. She didn't listen and now her life is in total disrepair and grief.God will never violate his clear principles and his word. Just as the man recently in the News who jumped into the zoo s lion cage to show how God would protect him---Noting Daniel in the lions den---The lion attacked him and the zoo officials statement was that had they not just feed the lions he would have been killed.Jesus said thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. There's a real good book out by a Brother Lawerence called " Praticing the Presence of God". Its a practical way to serve the Lord and commune with him daily.If you want to see Jesus--- you need to be Jesus to someone in need.That can come through a smile , helps , kindness , all the simple things in life, do these and you'll see mircles happening all around you band you'll experience the smile of God on your life and never doubt or guess what it is the Lord is telling you.God Bless as you press in to know Him better.Brother Daryl


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D.Miller

 2004/11/4 15:23Profile
moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: strange

Quote:
Big question----would God tell you to transgress his word?



This seems logical, but I do question, wasn't murder wrong in the old testament? why did God tell Abraham to kill His son Isaac? Couldn't abraham have said, well it doesn't go along with what you've said is right to do. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong here, just questioning.

Once I believed that the Lord was tellng me to go to a particualr church and give them a certain message I had written down. It was about restoration. I didn't want to go, i didn't want to look like a fool- but I went and you know what- It wasn't the right church, it turns out it wasn't even a church 'building' He was talking about. But at that moment, I believed He was telling me to go. Maybe it was to see if I'd obey. Maybe not. But I did and, no, they had no idea what I was talking about. They thought I was a weirdo. They asked who I was "under". I felt so stupid. It didn't hurt anything (except my ego) but I wondered for a long time, if it was God, and if it was, why did He do that.

Who knows, maybe I am a flake too, a fool. Well, I guess I'll be a fool for Christ, at least.

Just for the record I don't believe that God would ever tell you to do anything contrary to His word, but voting for someone- that's not really mentioned in there, I don't think. :-)

We are all in a process of learning to listen to Him. Let us pray for discernment and follow after Him.

In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2004/11/4 15:49Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

It's true that we will be judged by the light---or understanding we have in the Lord and by the love we have one toward another.When You approach the OT characters you have to rember that they didn't have the bible or such a rich written history. Abraham had what was culturally accepted in his time as to who God was and what gods there were.The Lord chose to make himself known to Abraham in some very special ways, but we have a more sure word 2PETER 1:19-21 , they ministered with limited knowledge to us who have a fuller knowledge. In order to look at the way Abraham was willing to express his faith in obedience to God (note Heb 11:17-19) you can not---let me state it again---YOU MUST NOT---neglect the personal history Abraham already had with God and all that he'd already seen God do and speak to him under special revelations and manifestations.He had plenty of history already in accurately hearing and following God.I could use the fact that in that time human sacrifice was common---but won't,or that Abraham didn't have the bible -- not even the 10 commandments--- but he did have a law from God written on his heart. We all make mistakes and sometimes there pretty painful -- but the closer we conform to the written word the more we'll accurately hear God speak.Why did John call Jesus the Word of God? I tell you the truth---he saw in Jesus the doing of the written Word of God, the living out of the Word. Asoft answer that turned away wrath ,,,,ect....Being spiritual is simply doing the word of God and when nessary the God of the Word will move you with understanding to do special things as His servant.God Bless---Bro.Daryl


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D.Miller

 2004/11/5 0:16Profile
Spitfire
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Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re:

And what about David who went into the temple and ate the shew bread? Did I say that right?

Anyway, in meditating on the core issue of this thread, I first had to evaluate what the core issue is. You all help me out here, please. I see the core issue as this: Does God lead us to do things that appear to contradict what would seem to be his way of doing things? If so, why?

God's purpose in all our lives is to bring us to the place of absolute dependent faith in Him. Perhaps we can dispense with what God might do with whomever and just ask, Is it possible that God led Dian to vote against her own conscience? If so, why? Or is Dian spiritually confused? If Dian is confused, what is causing her confusion? You know, I don't mind being a guinea pig here for the sake of truth. I've given this much thought over the last 48 hours. I, of course, don't like to think I am deceived. I've studied hard to show myself approved. But, I'm not going to be so prideful to think it isn't possible. You may say, "Why is this such a big deal? Let's just drop it." But, I believe it is a huge deal. We cannot get to the place where we rest in believing that we hear God and he is leading us and caring for us if we don't settle these things. This is how I think. Tell me if you think I'm wrong. I humble myself before God daily. I confess that I am nothing without him. I fully understand that we are all just groping in the dark, and if he doesn't flip on the lights, we are doomed. Now, I wait on God. I never assume that I understand. I am certain that God's ways will not make sense to me. I am certain that I must walk by faith and not by sight. Perfect example: God led the children of Israel in the opposite direction of the Promise Land. It made no sense to human reasoning. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, right? Sometimes my own children want to do things and they ask my permission. I have a check in my spirit, so I say "no". They want to know why. I say because I am the Mom and I can say no if I want to. That's how I see myself with God. Sometimes he makes me step a way that does not make sense to me just to make sure I'm listening and walking in submission. Perhaps he has had to use this tactic to break my stubborn will. You know, like a daddy whose son wants to smoke so he gives him a cigar to make him sick. Did you ever play Simon Says? It's a game about listening closely. God is teaching all of us to listen closely and to submit to him. I'm sure we never get it perfect, but God knows I want to abandon myself and fully trust him. I guess I'm one of those types who runs wide open. I'm either going to win, or I'm going to bust it big time! That's my personality. God has had to rule me with an iron fist. :-( I'm not proud of that, it's just the fact. Maybe I am a flake. God is still big enough to conquer this old hard head. Love ya'll. Dian.

 2004/11/5 6:41Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
You know, I don't mind being a guinea pig here for the sake of truth.



Welcome to the lab! There's plenty of room in this cage, the foods really good and except for the poking and proding... :-P

Love the way these threads can go sideways and backward. I too also pondered on the point raised by Daryl, a good point I thought, maybe a bit to quick out of the cage in my own zeal. Time to nibble on some carrot's and sleep on it for awhile.

Not entirely sure if maybe we are confusing something here (well considering the source..)
Something that came to mind:

Dan 2:21 He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;
Dan 2:22 he reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him.

Psa 75:6 For not from the east or from the west and not from the wilderness comes lifting up,
Psa 75:7 but it is God who executes judgment, putting down one and lifting up another.

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

As self appointed captain of the "Red Flag brigade" (it's a minor rebellion, a faction coming together out of the test lab) Would be first to mandate that being a good Berean is item one.

If it is the Lord God who sets up leaders and in our day through the process of his creatures casting ballots primarily, am wondering if in this case the emphasis is straying to far into semantics. Couldn't the same thing be said about GWB in certain peoples minds? That situation over in modern Babylonia for instance. Who have recently seen their 'king' removed, one who slaughtered his own people in huge numbers lest anyone forget and it seems many have.

It may not be so clear cut here, we may never resolve this to our own liking and can also see where this could be applied to whole other areas, many which are in various threads around here and if taken to extremes a lot of fallout and even more confusion.

I did jump at the obedience factor perhaps a bit to quickly. And when it comes to the things that come to our minds or these checks in the spirit am practically paranoid, don't trust my own thoughts at all not to mention the sweet nothings of the adversary and the noise pollution of the world.

So perhaps this was designed not only to test Dian's obedience but to spark this whole conversation. "Send in the guinea pig's please".

Maybe it's just bad pizza.


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Mike Balog

 2004/11/5 9:22Profile





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