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mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
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 Re:

Something I find about this passage is it never indicated which baptism is actually being talking about whether or Holy Spirit baptism.

Mostly we understand as water baptism however this to me is an outward sign of something that should be happening within.

I did a study on this for awhile due to disagreement with doctrine and I find what I found very interesting to say the least and I hope that it brings encouragement and blessing to someone that reads it.

I think of baptism in a sense simply means immersed, Then I thought of the Holy Spirit and His baptism. I found this God is Love and SO as a part of God the Holy Spirit is also Love. SO from this we can conclude a Baptism of the Holy Spirit is simply an immersion in God's Unconditional Love, which imho is something a new disciple would need, is Love unconditional. A new disciple will mess up get confused at times discourage, etc but knowing there is unconditional Love not only from God but from other Believers brings hope to the Life in the Next.

So should we baptise? My point is what better baptism is there than a baptism of Love?


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2010/11/2 1:21Profile









 Re: (Go...)... baptising them... But why?

I've decided to make the discussion paper easier to read by pasting it here.

The opening page is a certificate of baptism in Hebrew, then it says:


Disclaimer: the following material does not
promote the doctrine of immersional regeneration.
However, having said that, note well:

if you are on the Egypt side of the Red Sea with Pharaoh’s pursuing soldiers all around you, and Moshiach Tzur Yisroel commands you to take a step of faith into the water and you refuse, rejecting Goeleinu in stubborn unbelief and disobedience, you may miss the Promised Land of new life Hashem desires for you. Ask Hashem to heal your unbelief.

Trust in the L-rd and His Inerrant Word with all of your heart and don’t rely on your own corrupt way of thinking. Which is better: the chelek of the Agam HaEish or the chelek of the Resurrected Moshiach? Are you willing to forfeit your inheritance so casually?

THE OUTGOING NATURE OF TRUE JUDAISM
Many people do not know that Judaism used to be a "proselytizing" religion, and that leaders of Judaism were both zealous and highly successful at making proselytes. In fact, so numerous were the proselytes in Biblical times that there is even a term in Scripture for conversion to Judaism - mityahadim (see Esther 8:17).

The rabbis knew that Judaism was not merely a narrow, national religion. The Talmud says that the teachings of Judaism were freely meant for all mankind (see Babylonian Talmud, Shabbath 146a, where Devarim 29:13-14 [14-15] is quoted as referring to proselytes). And just as Gentiles were saved in Noah's ark, so Ruth was also brought under Hashem's wings (Ruth 2:12).

In the High HolyDay Prayerbook, we read on Rosh Hashanah "Also Noah Thou didst remember in love, and didst remember him with a promise of salvation and mercy, when Thou didst send the flood to destroy all creatures because of their evil deeds. So his remembrance came before Thee, O L-rd our G-d to increase his seed like the dust of the earth and his offspring like the sand of the sea."

So hope is held out that the Righteous Gentiles of the world will have a share in the World to Come. In fact, according to ancient tradition, the first proselytes to the Jewish faith were Abraham and Sarah, and through their descendants G-d intended to proselytize the nations (see also Mt 28:19). For a few other texts of many in the Scriptures on the universal scope of the Jewish faith, see Ps 22:27; Isaiah 45:22; 66:23; Zechariah 14:16.

Of course, Judaism, with the exception of Messianic Judaism, changed when the rabbis took over under Yochanan ben Zakkai in Yavneh near Jaffa in Israel and instituted after 70 C.E. a post-Temple, non-priestly form of Judaism lacking blood sacrifice and a Temple.

It should be remembered here that it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul (Lev.17:11) and that Abel's offering from the firstborn of his flock was looked on with favor by the L-rd, but a bloodless religion and worship without blood atonement was not looked on with favor (see Gen.4:4-5). G-d says, "When I see the blood, I will pass over you" (Exod.12:13).

To lack faith in Gen.22:8; Exo.12:5-13; Isaiah 53:7 and in Moshiach's necessary sacrifice, and then to institute a religion where, gratuitously, blood sacrifice is deemed not necessary, is to change the religion of Judaism, the religion of Moses.

Messianic Judaism has not changed Judaism, the religion of Moses. Rabbinic Judaism has changed Judaism. Messianic Judaism is true Judaism. The pseudo-Judaism of the rabbis came into being after 70 C.E., making Rabbinic Judaism a religion that post-dates Messianic Judaism. Not only does it lack Biblical warrant for many of its tenets of faith, the fact is that the rabbis have cooled off in their zeal to win converts. However, Moshiach's Judaism has always been a proselytizing faith, eager to share the blessings of Judaism with the whole world.

In our own era, millions of adherents to Moshiach's Judaism, including both Jews and non-Jews from every culture and country, have become born-again spiritual children of Abraham and genuine proselytes to Moshiach’s Judaism. For true commitment to Judaism can only be through true commitment to the Moshiach of Judaism, Moshiach Adoneinu.

Unfortunately, not all Jews nor all Goyim have been willing to become proselytes to Moshiach because not everyone is willing to commit himself to Moshiach. And many who have committed themselves to Moshiach Adoneinu are even ignorant of the fact that what they call "the Religion of Messiah" is really Moshiach's Judaism that Goyim have adapted to their own culture.

Nevertheless, the faith of the Brit Chadasha is still the true, Biblical, Judaism of Moses and Moshiach, whether every believer in Moshiach Adoneinu realizes it or not.

JUDAISM'S INDISPENSIBLE MIKVEH
Scripturally, a Jew is anyone like Ruth the Moabitess who has renounced idolatry and thrown in his or her lot with the people of the one true G-d. Therefore, when a Gentile lady named Ruth clung to Naomi and her G-d, Ruth became a Jewess, even qualifying to become the great-grandmother of King David.

However, historically, there have been three things involved in the reception of proselytes to Judaism: 1) circumcision (the bris milah), 2) complete immersion (the tevilah) in a mikveh ritual bath, and 3) a sacrifice (see Numbers 15:14 and Babylonian Talmud, Kerithoth 9a.)

This blood sacrifice (an offering by fire) burned on the altar and was indispensible, at the time the Beis Hamikdash stood, and points prophetically along with all sacrifice to the repentant proselyte's need for a blood atonement kapparah. Rabbi Judah the Patriarch ("Rabbenu haKadosh") compared this three-fold admission into Judaism as reminiscent of the Biblical history of Israel, a nation circumcised before leaving Egypt (Joshua 5:2), immersed in the desert in a holy washing ritual (Exodus 19:10), and sprinkled with the blood of a covenant sacrifice (Exodus 24:3-8) [see Sifra, Ahare Perek 12].

Nevertheless, the central ritual of admittance into Judaism has always been a tevilah of water immersion. The sacrifice offered by the proselyte was never as important as circumcision or immersion, especially after the Temple was destroyed, making sacrifice impossible.

Furthermore, since women converts to Judaism far outnumbered men, circumcision could hardly become the chief rite of entry into Judaism.

Therefore, the one indispensable thing that any convert, whether male or female, had to do to become a Jew was to get immersed in water. Of course, a male had to be circumcised as well, but if we look for the one thing that every non-Jew, regardless of gender, had to do in order to become a Jew, the answer is: he or she had to submit to a tevilah.

Proselytes crossed the threshold into Israel through an immersion bath, because Israel had entered the promised land through water (the Red Sea) and therefore so must all who would become Jews. There was a definite concept of cleansing built into this decisive tevilah. Moshiach said to Kefa, “Unless I wash you, you have no chelek in me” (Yn 13:8).

A heathen who left behind the idolatry of the Gentile world to join G-d’s people looking forward to the Promised Land of abundant new life had indeed passed from sin to a whole new life and inheritance share (chelek). When he came up out of the water, he was considered ritually undefiled, beginning life all over with a clean bill of goods, like a child newly born (Babylonian Talmud, Yebamoth, 48b). He had begun a new life as a ben berit, a son of the covenant, a Jew.

Towards the end of the first century, C.E., the leading rabbis of the school of Hillel claimed that a man was Jewish as soon as he was immersed, the tevilah being as decisive a rite in the case of determining whether a man had become a Jew as it was for making the same determination for a woman (Mishnah Aboth 1.12).

Later, in Moshiach's Judaism, circumcision was not imposed on Goyim (I Corinthians 7:18; Acts 15:5-11), since there is no salvation in becoming a physical Jew but only in becoming a ben Avraham by emunah, that is, a spiritual child of Abraham through the circumcision of the Ruach Hakodesh (Gal.3:7-14; Col.2:11-17).

Therefore, Moshiach's tevilah became the indispensable ritual for all who would become adherents of Moshiach's Judaism.

THE IMMERSION PRACTICED BY THE JEWISH PROPHET
YOCHANAN HAMAHTBEEL
Rabbi Akiba said: "Blessed are you, 0 Israel. Before whom are you made clean and who makes you clean? Your Father in heaven. As it is written, 'And I nwill dash clean water upon you and you shall be clean' (Ezekiel 36:25).

And again it says, 'O L-rd, the mikveh (meaning either the word 'hope' or the word 'font') of Israel (Jeremiah 17:13); as the mikveh cleanses the unclean, so does the Holy One cleanse Israel"' (Mishnah Yoma 8.9). The Jewish prophet Ezekiel speaks of G-d's cleansing his people in the last days: "For I will take you from the nations, and gather you from all the countries, and bring you into your own land, I will dash clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from your idols I will cleanse you . . . and you . . .shall be my people and I will byour G-d. And I will save you from all your uncleannesses" (Ezekiel 36:24-28).

Zechariah too saw this final time of national repentance: There shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and uncleanness" (Zechariah 13:1).

Proselyte tevilah immersion symbolically washed the uncleanness from the heathen on entering Judaism. Thus non Jews were grafted on to the people of G-d by a water immersion which gave them ceremonial purity.

The Jewish prophet Yochanan (John) HaMahtbeel (the Tevilah Immersionist) called on all Israel to likewise confess sinful uncleanness and take a mikveh ritual bath "as a token of their teshuva" (Mark 1:4) and resolve to keep themselves holy as they awaited the coming Moshiach. Then as the last days began to approach, the Jewish prophet Yochanan announced that the Moshiach was on his way to pour out the Ruach Hakodesh on some and the fire of Gehinnom on others. Therefore, all must heed the Word of G-d, turn from their own ways, look to G-d and his Moshiach for mercy and deliverance from judgment, be cleansed with clean water, and be saved from G-d's burning wrath (see Mark 1:4, Matthew 3:7, Luke 3:9).

Sensing by the Ruach Hakodesh that the Moshiach's presence on the earth was very near and that the need for preparing the Jewish people to meet their G-d had reached the crisis point, Yochanan HaMahtbeel called upon all G-d's people to seek the forgiveness of Hashem by submitting to a purifying tevilah. For this great Jewish prophet saw that the coming Moshiach would judge the wicked who had not turned from the "Egyptian" evils of this world by taking a "Red Sea" immersion of separation and repentance in the Jordan River.

G-d gave Yochanan the foresight to see that those who did turn to G-d would be given the Ruach Hakodesh by the Coming One, the Moshiach. Later Yochanan must have had inspired intimations of how G-d would save his people and the kapparah Moshiach would bring. Yochanan pointed to Moshiach Adoneinu and said, "Look, there is the Lamb of G-d; it is he who takes away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I spoke when I said, `After me a man is coming whose status is higher than mine; for before I was born, he already existed.’ I myself did not know who he was; but the very reason why I came, immersing in water, was that he might be revealed to Israel" (Yochanan 1:29-31).

However, the tevilah immersion of Yochanan went beyond proselyte immersion in several ways. It was directed toward his fellow-Jews. It was a collective act of repentance and included the whole nation. It had a "last-chance" ethical and spiritualsignificance that went far beyond the mere ceremonial cleansing of proselyte tevilah immersion. Yochanan asserted that through his water ordeal the remnant of the true Israel of G-d was being called out from all the spiritually dead who refused to prepare themselves by tevilah immersion for the coming of the Moshiach. Therefore, all strata of Israel's society responded to the immersion of Yochanan.

What was unique about Yochanan was that he saw by inspiration from the
G-d of Israel that, in view of the coming of the Holy One, the Moshiach, Jews were just as unprepared and sinfully unclean and in need of ultimate kapparah (Yochanan 1:29) as were heathen proselytes, and must therefore prepare themselves by the same act of repentance - submitting, to a tevilah immersion for the uncleanness of sins. Yochanan preached, "Do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have the yichus (proud lineage), we have the zechut Avot (merit of the Fathers) of Avraham Avinu (our father Abraham).' For I say to you that Hashem is able to raise up from these avanim (stones) banim (sons) of Avraham" (OJBC version, Matthew 3:9).

Yochanan knew that the essential thing for his fellow Jews was that they humble themselves, turn from prideful wickedness and prepare to adhere to the Moshiach, through whom they would escape judgment and receive the all important gift of Hashem, the Ruachb Hakodesh. Therefore, he saw that the whole nation of Israel must turn to G-d with the humility of a sinful non-Jew submitting to a mikveh of repentance for the sins of his unholy former life.

In pointing toward the Seh haElohim (the Lamb of G-d, Isaiah 53:7, Genesis 22:8), Yochanan pointed toward a new meaning for the tevilah immersion as the standard means of making proselytes to Judaism. This new meaning would include a perfect blood sacrifice for sin, an eternal kapparah for all who would receive the Ruach Hakodesh and thus be circumcised as spiritual bnei Avraham through immersion in the name of the G-d of Israel.

The tevilah immersion toward which Yochanan was pointing was the immersion of Moshiach Adoneinu, experienced by Moshiach himself and then by him commanded for all peoples of the world.

THE TEVILAH OF THE JEWISH MOSHIACH ADONEINU
The tevilah of Moshiach Adoneinu was his first public act of identification with the sins of men, showing that although he was himself sinless, he was willing to identify with sinners and bear their sins as the Lamb of G-d, even if to do so would cost him great suffering and anguish, even death.

When Moshiach Adoneinu went under the water in his own tevilah, he knew he was anticipating his own death (see Luke 12:50). At his tevilah, the heavenly voice of Elohim haAv (Mark 1:11, Matthew 3:17, Luke3:22) affirmed Moshiach Adoneinu's Sonship but in words that alluded to his Messianic role (Psalm 2:7) in terms of suffering servanthood (Isaiah 42:1; 44:2) and death (Isaiah 53).

Therefore, in his single action of being buried in water and rising again, Moshiach Adoneinu summed up and signified prophetically what he would do to save the world: he would bring in the Brit Chadasha (New Covenant) of the Malchut Hashem (Kingdom of G-d) by his death, burial, and resurrection; and he would lead all who would follow him to a similar experience of death and new life -- death to the old life of sin, and rebirth to a new life of eternal sonship through the gift of the Ruach Hakodesh.

In Moshiach Adoneinu's immersion, he was submitting his own willing obedience to the will of his Father. When we likewise follow Moshiach Adoneinu into the water and have a similar spiritual experience of submitting our will to the Father, we are circumcised -- that is, cleansed and consecrated -- in our will by the Ruach Hakodesh and thus become spiritual bnei Avraham, spiritual Jews. Whereas before, our life was under the control of the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2), now our life comes under the Moshiach. As we daily mortify the old carnal man, we continually walk in the newness of life. Therefore, it is not a rule that constrains us but a Person, who loved sinners enough to die for us in order to forgive our past and bring us the hope of an eternal future with Hashem, one into which we walk each day with Moshiach (see II Corinthians 5:14).

This Person is the Torah who writes himself upon our wills (Jeremiah 31:33). This inward life-giving law is none other than Moshiach Adoneinu (I Corinthians 9:21). Through the Ruach Hakodesh, Moshiach Adoneinu lives in the lives of all believers and produces righteousness and love in deveku (communion) with them. The Ben HaElohim's selfless ahavah for Elohim Avinu, this kind of love, is what the Torah was aiming for (Deuteronomy 6:5), and when we receive the Word become Man, Moshiach Adoneinu, the Torah hits its mark in us and we become true Torah-keeping bnei Avraham, whose wills are circumcised and set in step with the Ruach Hakodesh.

To be a true ben Avraham is first and foremost a spiritual matter of the will and having the right heart toward G-d, and that can only be a heart of hopeful and loving faith (Galatians 5:6) in what G-d has done for men in Moshiach Adoneinu. Only the Dvar Hashem who became Moshiach and who through the bRuach Hakodesh becomes the indwelling Word (Yirmeyah 31:33) could endow men with a new principle of life. This principle of life is sufficient to create a new humanity (I Corinthians 15:20, 45; Yochanan 20:22), a new family of whom Moshiach Adoneinu is the head.

To understandthis "bris milah of Moshiach" (Colossians 2:11), one must recall that the covenant of circumcision operated on the principle of the spiritual union of the household in its head. The covenant is "between Me and thee and thy offspring after thee" (Genesis 17:7).

From Galatians 3:16,26-29, it becomes apparent that both the offspring and head of the new humanity is Moshiach, into whose Body believers are incorporated at their tevilah. The Bris Milah is the token or sign by which G-d acknowledges his people. It is the stamp of the covenant. Thecircumcision of the heart is the inward sign wherein G-d's Spirit witnesses to a human spirit that it belongs to G-d.

This inward mark of possession is then Ruach Hakodesh who cuts himself into our will, molding us into the image of G-d's Son and marking us out as the spiritually cleansed property of G-d, just as the external mark of circumcision in the flesh had marked out a Jewish baby boy as the property of G-d. But, as both the Torah and Tanach show, G-d intended to "mark off" as his own not merely people who were circumcised physically but "in their hearts" (Deuteronomy 10:16).

So strong is this teaching, that G-d threatens to destroy any Jew who is not spiritually circumcised (Jeremiah 4:4). Such a one will be shut out of Jerusalem (Isaiah 52:1), as well as the L-rd's sanctuary (Ezekiel 44:7, 9) and salvation (Deuteronomy 30:6). For not all G-d's physical people are his spiritual children (Romans 9:6).

In Genesis chapter 17, circumcision is the covenant sign of G-d's choosing out and marking off men for his own. So in the Brit Chadasha Scriptures, the gift of the Ruach Hakodesh, without which a man does not belong to the Moshiach (Romans 8:9), is offered in connection with Moshiach's tevilah (Acts 2:38), which is identified with Moshiach's way of circumcision (Colossians 2:11-12). Jeremiah, the Jewish prophet, foresaw the age of the Ruach Hakodesh when the creation of a new heart and spirit in humanity would be the essence of a Brit Chadasha (New Covenant) that G-d would make with Israel. Therefore, Jeremiah cried out to his people, "O Jerusalem, wash thy heart from wickedness that thou may be saved" (Jeremiah 4:14).

Moshiach's Bris Milah (Circumcision) in Colossians 2:11-12 is a periphrasis for the hitkhadeshut (regeneration) of which Moshiach's tevilah is meant to bear testimony and whereby both Jews and non-Jews become in Moshiach spiritual Bnei Avraham initiated into covenant membership in the cultivated Olive Tree of Elect Israel (Rom.11:24; 9:6; Jeremiah 11:16), the Israel of G-d and the Jerusalem above.

According to the Torah, circumcision is more than a minor surgical operation -- it is also a major spiritual operation. The Torah commands, "Circumcise the foreskin of your will and be no longer stubborn . . . and the L-rd your G-d will circumcise your will (that is, cleanse and consecrate your will) ... so that you will love the L-rd your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul that you may live" (Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6).

In the Jewish Brit ChadashaNew Covenant, G-d declares that you are not a true Ben Avraham in the Ruach Hakodesh unless you have this inward circumcision of your will (Romans 2:28, 29) and you worship G-d in spirit with your confidence in Moshiach Adoneinu and not in anything external (Philippians 3:3). Consequently, G-d has provided his people with a hitkhadeshut(regeneration), to which the tevilah immersion of purification bears testimony, whereby the impure foreskin of our evil urgings in our old humanity in Adam can be buried and drowned, even washed away by G-d's Ruach Hakodesh (see Ezekiel 36:25-27).

This bath symbolizes both a spiritual mikveh (Jewish purification bath) and a spiritual bris milah (circumcision into Avraham). It is Moshiach's tevilah, and is a token of turning to G-d through emunah (faith) in Moshiach Yehoshua/Yeshua (His Hebrew/Aramaic name).

There is a controlling sinful nature that lives in every man. The circumcision of the Moshiach is the spiritual cutting away of this rebellious sinful nature, a miracle witnessed to by our public burial in the mikveh mayim with a tevilah immersion.

True, this carnal self must be reckoned as dead every day, but Hashem reckons us legally dead with Moshiach when we turn to him in faith. We witness in the tevilah to our submitting our will to die to our former sin-prone way of life. Only by a submission of our will in repentance may we be made alive by the resurrected, living Dvar Hashem, the Dvar Hashem who came among us as a Man and wants to write himself upon our wills, as Jeremiah foresaw: "Then I will make a Brit Chadasha with the house of Israel ... I will put my Torah in their inward parts and I will write it in their hearts" (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

Therefore, Moshiach's Tevilah means many things. It witnesses to the cutting free of the downward pull of our lower natures in the miracle of the new birth. It is our Red Sea exodus from the bondage of sin anddeath to the an inheritance of an eternal Promised Land. It symbolizes the "circumcision made without hands" whereby we become sons of the Brit Chadasha as we enter into faith-union with the Jewish Moshiach as members of his bride, the world-wide Chavurah fellowship of the Jewish Brit Chadasha.

Just as a Jewish girl takes the ritual bath in the mikveh in preparation for her wedding, so we who are wedded to Moshiach Adoneinu by faith take a mikveh to bring ourselves into teshuvah and devekus with Moshiach. "In him also you were circumcised, not in a physical sense, but by the surgical removal of of the lower nature; this is Moshiach's way of circumcision. For in Moshiach's tevilah you were buried with him, in Moshiach's tevilah you were raised to life with him through your faith in the power of G-d who raised him from the dead. And although you were dead because of your sins and because of the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, he has made you alive with Moshiach" (Colossians 2:11-13)

MOSHIACH'S TEVILAH: YOUR ADMITTANCE TO MOSHIACH'S SEDER, THE SEUDAS MOSHIACH
So long as a Gentile has not had his tevilah, he is still a Gentile" (Babylonian Talmud, Berakoth 47b). Likewise, if a Jewish person has not had hitkhadeshut regeneration, a spiritual miracle witnessed to by Moshiach's tevilah, he is also ceremonially and spiritually in the uncircumcision of his sinful nature, because he has not submitted to the circumcision done by Moshiach (Colossians 2:11). For, in the same way that a non-Jew coming up out of the water of his tevilah was considered at that moment to be a Jew, when a person comes up from the mikveh of Moshiach Adoneinu, he crosses a ceremonial threshold and becomes a ben Avraham by faith.

The rabbis said that aproselyte was like one who had touched a corpse. Touching a corpse meant contracting seven days of uncleanness (Numbers 19:16). Therefore a proselyte, like a ritually unclean Israelite, needed to take a tevilah immersion in water as he approached G-d, particularly if he were to share in the Passover (see Mishnah Pesachim 8.8).

Likewise Rabbi Saul warned that those who eat and drink the Seudas Moshiach unworthily, without obeying the L-rd (in this case by taking the mikveh), eat and drink judgment on themselves (I Corinthians 11:27-30). Therefore, no one may partake of the Seudas Moshiach until he has obeyed the L-rd by submitting in teshuvah (repentance) to the Moshiach's tevilah.

Jewish proselyte tevilah immersion has its roots in the levitical immersions of the Torah (see Numbers 19). These purification baths were for ritually unclean Israelites who had defiled themselves by touching a corpse or other taboo object. Both pagans and ritually unclean Israelites were excluded from Pesach or the Passover, because both were ritually unclean, one because he was not circumcised and immersed in the mikveh, the other because he had not taken a tevilah immersion to remove his ceremonial uncleanness, and neither, of course, had the sacrifice commanded by theTorah (see Leviticus 15:13-25). A sacrifice was required of both pagans becoming Jews and unclean Israelites, and was offered by both after they took their tevilah immersions.

Therefore, in order to gain entrance to the covenant meal of the Passover Seder, the same three conditions were required of proselytes as natural born, yet ceremonially unclean Jews. These three conditions were circumcision (required on the eighth day of the life of a natural born Jew), water immersion, and sacrifice. (See the reference to ritual immersions, the prototype of Moshiach's tevilah, in the Torah: Leviticus 15:13; Numbers 8:7-8; Leviticus 14:1-32.)

In the Jewish Brit Chadasha Scriptures, as we have seen, none of these three aspects of incorporation into the people of G-d is omitted. For where there is faith, water immersion into Moshiach's Judaism in the name of the G-d of Israel includes an eternal (spiritual) circumcision (Colossians2:11-13), an eternal (spiritual) purification bath (Titus 3:5), and a perfect, eternal blood sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 9:12). Only those Bnei Avraham who have covenanted themselves to the Moshiach Adoneinu in the mikveh may sit at the table of Moshiach's Brit Chadasha Pesach and partake of its blessing.

AN ETHICAL IMPERATIVE FROM THE G-D OF ISRAEL
Taking or not taking the Moshiach's tevilah is really not an option, for the decision means obedience or disobedience to a divine command from the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And who would argue with the risen Moshiach Adoneinu, G-d's mighty Word come among us as an indestructible man? Certainly not the first adherents of Moshiach's Judaism, for, upon his authority, several thousand Messianic Jews were submitted to Moshiach's tevilah within the first few weeks after the resurrection of Moshiach. Just as Goyim had to get into the water to commit themselves to Judaism, so now that the Moshiach has come and is coming again, everyone must get into the water and personally commit himself to Moshiach Adoneinu in order to remain in the mainstream of true Biblical Judaism.

Where there is no true adherence to the Moshiach of Judaism, there is no true adherence to Judaism. Anyone who refuses to take the Moshiach's tevilah automatically removes himself from true Biblical Judaism, for as the Talmud does not fail to notice, "The world was only created for the Moshiach" (Sanhedrin 98b) and "All the prophets prophesied of nothing but the days of the Moshiach" (Sanhedrin 99a).

If you want blessed, read what Moshiach Adoneinu says to do: "Anyone who loves me will obey what I say; then my Father will love him, and we will come to him and live within him" (Yochanan 14:23). Taking the Moshiach's tevilah is no magic insurance policy freeing people to live as they please without thought of the consequences. Taking the Moshiach's tevilah is a moral matter, and it means coming under the ethical direction and control of the Jewish Moshiach Adoneinu. To live otherwise is to make a mockery of one's tevilah. To refuse to take the Moshiach's tevilah is in fact unethical behavior, since it is disobedience of a mitzvoh of the G-d of Israel and his Moshiach (see Matthew 28:19).

The spiritual Jew spends the rest of is life working out the implications of his Moshiach's tevilah and what it means spiritually and ethically to be living a Jewish life under the leading of Moshiach. Without the intention of such a vital faith, the ceremony of the Moshiach's tevilah is empty and meaningless. Moshiach Adoneinu saves us through the tevilah (immersion) "of rebirth and renewing of the Ruach Hakodesh" (Tt 3:5).

This does not mean that there is a quid quo pro between not submitting to Moshiach's tevilah and going to Gehinnom, but it does mean that anyone who says that he believes in Moshiach and yet refuses to submit to the Moshiach's tevilah is in danger of coming under the judgment of the word of G-d: "The man who says 'I know him,' while he disobeys his mitzvot, is a liar and a stranger to the truth" (I Yochanan 2:4).

Moshiach Adoneinu commanded, "Make talmidim for Moshiach of all the nations, giving them a tevilah in a mikveh mayim in Hashem, the Name of HaAv, HaBen, and HaRuach HaKodesh, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you, And--hinei!--I Moshiach) am with you always, even unto the Ketz haOlam hazeh (Mt.28:19-20 OJBC).

Here is a Tefillah which you can daven:

G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I am a Jew and I'm going to die a Jew. But I've decided to stop living as I please. I promise to live by your Word in both the Tanach and the Brit Chadasha. Elohim Avinu, I know that you can forgive my sins only through the kapparah of the Seh haElohim Moshiach Yehoshua/Yeshua. Yehoshua/Yeshua, I believe that you overcame death to prove that you are Ben HaElohim, my Moshiach and my L-rd. Come into my life. Forgive my sins. Take control of my life. And I'll obey you forever, to the glory of Elohim Avinu and in the power of the Ruach Hakodesh. In Yeshua’s/Yehoshua's name, amen.

Are you willing to pray that Tefillah and mean it?

Acts 2:41-42 explains what Moshiach Yehoshua requires of his talmidim: "And those who accepted the Besuras Hageulah took the Moshiach's Tevilah, and they met persistently to hear the teaching of Moshiach's Shlichim, to experience Moshiach's Chavurah, to celebrate the Moshiach's Seder, and to daven."



For all the discipling materials, of which this copyrighted material is part, see
EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO GROW A MESSIANIC SYNAGOGUE
at http://www.afii.org/texts/eyntgams.htm

 2010/11/2 9:01
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re: (Go...)... baptising them... But why?

I think we have a good example in the Ethiopian who was the one to bring up baptism for him....... then Philip agreed

Baptism is a sign of obedience and continuing on in following the Lord. When God sees that in someone it warms His heart and the person is drawn closer to God

The laver (baptism) comes after the altar (Cross) and is part of our 'linear" path from the outer-court to perfection in the Holiest

Doug

 2010/11/2 9:12Profile









 Re: (Go...)... baptising them... But why?


I would be interested to know what readers think is the meaning of the points raised in the section above (in my last post), for churches today?

Some questions are:

Would it help our understanding to think of ourselves as belonging to Messiah's Judaism, or not?

I recall that the brethren were first called 'Christians', as a term of derision, at Antioch. Does this help us to understand our true status as outcasts from the world?


Why do we make new believers wait to be baptised (until they've been through classes, often), rather than - for their own sake - doing it as soon as possible?

What are the disadvantages to the new convert, of being made to wait. Or, is it somehow helpful? (If so, to whom is it helpful - the organisation, or the believer?)


According to the writer, a believer should not be allowed to take bread and wine until he has been baptised. What do you feel about this restriction, and, should it be a good enough reason to baptise immediately, so the new believer can be included in obeying Christ's commands?


If God promised to 'dash' clean water on Israel, is this an option when shortness of water in a country makes total immersion difficult to arrange? Might the 'dash'ing of clean water be more hygenic, in certain places?

Is not the most important thing, that the believer understands the ritualistic significance of baptism within it's historic context, rather than that full immersion be organised, at all costs?


 2010/11/6 17:01





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