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 (Go...)... baptising them... But why?


[EDIT] Why was Jesus baptised? Why did Jesus take up baptising His followers? [end]

Some time ago I read the following (PDF) document, and was greatly moved by its thesis, which could not be phrased more succinctly. (Therefore I won't attempt to paraphrase any of it.)

It is in very large print, so don't be put off by the number of pages. I think it can probably be thrown onto a screen, in its present format. I'm trying to say, it's not that l o n g, but there are a lot of pages!

Aside from the central theme of how baptism became what it is to CHRISTIANS (both Jew and Gentile alike) and why we see in the Bible that it immediately followed conversion without any (other) explanation within the text, this document gives Romans 11 an historical Jewish context which (I believe) we cannot argue.

This paper is dense with scripture references. If you check them all as you go, it may take a while, but it is most definitely worth the effort for the overview you achieve.

Almost every Hebrew word used, is given an explanation between commas within the sentence it appears. The first time I read it, I didn't realise the clause between the commas was NOT additional information, (but translation).

I'm not sure whether to share first, what struck me most, so I'll leave it until there is any feedback from those who read. Anyway, I am certain those who read will be blessed.

http://www.afii.org/tevilah.pdf

http://www.afii.tv/tevilah.pdf This link may work better for some people.

 2010/11/1 7:32
MyVeryHeart
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Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
Paradise, California

 Re: (Go...)... baptising them

Thank you I was blessed. I remember when the Holy Spirit first fell upon me while reading Mere Christianity. It was a circumcision of the Heart. In the article it talks about the Holy Spirit coming in us to cut our Will. An eternal spiritual covenant cutting. This is what stood out to me. I love Jesus. He saved me. Amen.


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Travis

 2010/11/1 8:09Profile









 Re: (Go...)... baptising them


Wow! You were baptised in the Spirit reading 'Mere Christianity'! That's wonderful!

I'm glad you were blessed. Amen. That 'cutting of the Will' slipped by me the first time, but I did notice it on second reading, and how it well explains something to do with circumcision of the flesh.

 2010/11/1 8:30
MyVeryHeart
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Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
Paradise, California

 Re:

Quote:
Wow! You were baptised in the Spirit reading 'Mere Christianity'! That's wonderful!



I read it through in one standing (I was standing while reading it) And it was the first time I was ever told what Christianity was, who Jesus was, and I wanted to be a Christian, I believed it all to be true, Looking back it makes sense that the Spirit of Truth was hovering above me as I was reading. It was a miracle. Praise God!
It was like C.S Lewis was the preacher, like Peter in Acts and I was pierced to the heart

Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-38

What stood out for you in the article?


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Travis

 2010/11/1 8:47Profile









 Re: (Go...)... baptising them



Hi MVH,

Quote:
What stood out for you in the article?

Well, the first time I read it, I was struck by the fact that an ordinary Jew would never receive any kind of ritual washing with water, until John the Baptist introduced it.

This is really difficult to answer, because since you asked I've been thinking about it, and new things are falling into place in my understanding.

I will restrict myself to the first things...

The next thing was that I didn't know anything about what a Gentile had to 'do' to become Jewish, apart from circumcision. I didn't know about the sacrifice, or the baptism, so that struck me - how John the Baptist really went out on a limb when he called for JEWS to baptised, too.

The last thing I gathered was the logic of retaining baptism.

(If I say any more, I might give away some of the joy of reading the article, so I'll wait for more replies.)

 2010/11/1 13:41
MyVeryHeart
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Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
Paradise, California

 Re:

Quote:
I will restrict myself to the first things...



This passage just came to mind.

3Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."4Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:3-5

Now Nicodemus was most likely a pharisee who was beginning to believe Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of David, and as such would establish his kingdom and rule on David's throne. I think Jesus was teaching Nicodemus that his Kingdom was not of this world and you had to be born from above, (where the heavenly Jerusalem is)by the Holy Spirit that is also not of this world. But what about this water Jesus speaks of in addition to being born of the Spirit?
There have been many theological guesses at this but how about this.

John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.Mark 1:4

Repentance for me has been marked by the shedding of tears...Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.Luke 6:21

and like this woman...

...and standing behind Him at His feet, weeping, she began to wet His feet with her tears, and kept wiping them with the hair of her head, and kissing His feet and anointing them with the perfume. Luke 7:38

For like her I have been forgiven much. She loves much shedding many tears at his feet, and if you love the lord you will obey him.

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.Acts 2:38

but those who obey Jesus have a repentant heart and have all ready been forgiven as evidenced by their tears.



Not sure where I am going with this just some thoughts on being born of water and Spirit. God bless you




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Travis

 2010/11/1 14:38Profile









 Re: (Go...)... baptising them


Quote:
Repentance for me has been marked by the shedding of tears...

Yes.

Your post reminded me of something Peter said in Acts 5:32 'And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him', and of his 'I am a sinful man' moment, which hopefully led to his continuing repentance. (Because he was Andrew's brother, it seems possible he'd been baptised by John).

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Quote:
but those who obey Jesus have a repentant heart and have all ready been forgiven as evidenced by their tears.

I think you've touched on another thing here, which I realised as I read the paper, namely, that the effectiveness of the gospel message to bring a person right through to new birth, depends on them having become convinced of their sinfulness. Like Paul Washer says.. he wants the listener to feel isolated, and in desperate need of God's mercy!

I realised that if one was coming from a Gentile background at the time the Old Covenant was in force, one would have had a clear idea of the need for sacrifice, for the appeasement of the Hebrew God, just as the Jews did. This means of conveying sinfulness to the consciousness of the appellant, is REALLY missing from some preaching, and, from one-on-one evangelism (in some of my experience), but would make a tremendous difference to one's desire to be baptised as soon as possible if one understood it beforehand.

 2010/11/1 15:37
MyVeryHeart
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Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
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 Re:

Quote:
I realised that if one was coming from a Gentile background at the time the Old Covenant was in force, one would have had a clear idea of the need for sacrifice, for the appeasement of the Hebrew God, just as the Jews did.



Exd 38:8 Moreover, he made the laver of bronze with its base of bronze, from the mirrors of the serving women who served at the doorway of the tent of meeting.

This laver was used to wash the priests before offering sacrifice.Think of the serving women washing Jesus with tears.After all it is the mirrors of the serving women that served outside the tent of meeting that hold the water. Just like a women at the feet of Jesus, weeping. Do we see ourselves in that mirror?

Maybe we do offer ourselves as sacrifices on the altar before God, after washing in tears of repentance towards God and love for Jesus and his love for us.

Still don't know where this is going but as long as it stays centered on Christ I am confident it will be edifying. Praise God!

As Jesus was an offering, we are to be an offering, a pleasing aroma to the LORD.


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Travis

 2010/11/1 15:50Profile
MyVeryHeart
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Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
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 Re:

Quote:
Your post reminded me of something Peter said



I have been thinking on this some more and was reminded of this verse Peter wrote.

Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1 Peter 3:21

He says this corresponds to the eight people who were brought safely through the water. I thought about the flood and remembered that God was sorry that he made man because he was so wicked, but Noah was a man of repentance, he probably had Godly sorrow for this wickedness, and turned from it. Peter says it is not physical washing of dirt. I was reminded of this verse.

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened. Genesis 7:11

Could the fountains of the deep relate to God's sorrow at creating man, so he did unto them as they did to him? They made God sorry, and he cried, so he drowned them in his tears. Jesus was a man of sorrows. And when we repent he immerses us in his Spirit from above. Immersion. God Bless.


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Travis

 2010/11/1 21:49Profile
MyVeryHeart
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Joined: 2010/8/30
Posts: 449
Paradise, California

 Re: (Go...)... baptising them... But why?

Quote:
[EDIT] Why was Jesus baptised? Why did Jesus take up baptising His followers? [end]



Alive to God

I see you edited it for a more focused discussion. In the article it says Jesus was baptized in identification with sinners.

I was fairly ignorant of baptism when I approached a pastor, who I did not really even know very well, and asked him to be baptize me.

He asked me why, and I told him because Jesus did and he is my new role model. So I guess I was doing it to be identified with him. I was so excited! I thought that the skies would open up and a dove would descend upon me. It did actually a month later when the Spirit came powerfully while I was laying in Bed studying the bible.

Why we should do it I believe is because we are told to make disciples of all nations. And disciples want to follow Jesus and be like Him, be identified with him, as Sons of God.

Mat 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

edit!!!!
I just had a real neat thought! Jesus had his disciples baptize. In doing this we are also identifying with him who baptizes in Heaven with the Holy Spirit! And we are seated with him there in the Heavenly place! Awesome. I love following Jesus!

God bless you


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Travis

 2010/11/2 0:38Profile





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