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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : What grace is this?

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Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

UntoBabes.

The Lord does not want fathers to leave their children and wife. I just don't buy it. Our family is our first ministry.

You seem to know about the martyrs for Christ. Read up on our Chinese brothers. You will read that there are strong regrets that they left their families, realizing after their families left them (because they were left) that the Lord did not want them to leave their families in the first place.


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Christiaan

 2010/10/13 15:05Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:


I am sorry miccah,

One of us must have misunderstood the Lord when He says: whoever loves father or mother, sister or brother, son or daughter, yeh, even his own self more than me is not worthy of me.

I am not advocating walking away from our responsibilities, or not love our families, but as I see the scriptures teach clearly that the Lord comes first. We must make the choice daily to not deny Him.

As for the Chinese Christians, I like to hear it from them, not the misinterpretations that nominal Christians in the West put to their words.




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Fifi

 2010/10/13 17:22Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

No worries UntoBabes. I was thinking about this scripture when I wrote what I wrote. Context is key. What about 1 Timothy 5:8?

Quote:
If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.



Does this mean that those that leave their families are worse then unbelievers? Wow. I don't want to be grouped into that group. Does the Lord come first? Yes. Do we leave our family to the wolves? No.

And Yes, you are advocating exactly what you are saying that you do not advocate. At least stick by your guns and admit what you believe.

As for the Chinese Christians, feel free to look up "The Heavenly Man". Do some research on these brothers. Please don't take what I say as scripture... I sure am not taking what you say as such, me being "nominal" and all...


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Christiaan

 2010/10/13 17:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
One of us must have misunderstood the Lord when He says: whoever loves father or mother, sister or brother, son or daughter, yeh, even his own self more than me is not worthy of me.



Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Should I take this "absolute statement" from our Lord as being truthful when He said to Hate my Father and Mother whom the Lord God says to honour your Father and Mother that your days may be long in the earth?

Or is He saying something else?

This how I view this scripture.

The intensity of devotion must be MORE for my Lord than I would have for anyone else. If we spend more time with someone or something, it shows how much we are devoted toward them or it. All other loves would be secondary.

Jesus is basically saying, if you come after me, your going to have to love me more than your Father and Mother, Wife, Sister and Brother.

We don't stop loving our family and providing for them, but our devotion to God must be more, for He is a jealous God.

 2010/10/13 18:13
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi untobabes, the first marriage ended while they were not yet saved...they were married with a clear idea of faithfulness for each other...they had children...they were living for the Lord...all of the old had passed away.i could not believe that Jesus would advise them to separate or even our beloved paul...jimp

 2010/10/13 18:14Profile









 Re:

Had a friend who was a very young believer and he did not agree with his father and mother because they were Word of Faith people. Very loving and kind, but doctrinally, not what their son liked. One day Justin's grandfather died and his father asked him if would come to the funeral and be one of the pallbearers. Justin's reply was, "Let the dead bury the dead". That was real loving, I know.

Clearly, you can use the Word for whatever you want!

This woman and the ministry she is involved in is clearly in error, but their ministry is thriving because they have all the answers to your objections and clearly view you as part of the apostasy.

Found this and thought it interesting.
http://www.wayoflife.org/files/7a808929c6e2123b70af2862e9600ba8-101.html

And this is what happens when you take your eyes off the Lord.

Many years ago God began working in the hearts of a former Amish man and a Baptist preacher. Mose Stoltzfus and Denny Kenaston both became burdened seeing the lack of spirituality in many churches. Their hearts locked together with a vision to get back to a revived, New Testament, Christ-centered church. With this vision before their eyes, they began Charity Christian Fellowship in 1982.

They certainly built something. Their stated motivation and vision was they wanted something "Christ-centered", because "they saw the "lack of spirituality in many churches". Yet, the fruit is not there. We are now seeing the fruit.

Anyone can google this ministry and find message boards of people that have left and the terrible fallout that has resulted in their lives.

There stated purpose did not become spiritual reality, because instead of becoming Christ-centered they became man-centered.

They are subtly operating using the spirit of fear.

"Tapes and CDs are sent out across the land and sea with the knowledge that the Lord could use each gospel message to change someone’s eternity."

Change someone's eternity. When you read Kathleen's testimony, you discern a fear of losing her salvation and being condemned. Strong medicine that most cults operate on.

Something else I found. Have not read it all. It is actually a book, by a former member.

There are just sad stories here.
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/2119.html?1200413264

A quote from factnet. "I like Charity Gospel. I still listen to their tapes. I've learned things there that I never learned anywhere else. I appreciate what they are trying to do. They have their divorce doctrine totally wrong though. It goes against scriptures completely."

Of course, I have no doubt that she learned good things. No one preaches straight out lies. Lies are always mixed with truth. Jessie Penn-Lewis said it best, "Satan needs a few good teachers in which to float his lies".

The fact that 90% of the teaching may be great, actually convinces them that the 10% of lies must be "right" because everything else is.

But the fruit is rotten. ALIENATION. And their alienation is not just with children and former husbands and wives but with the Lord God Himself. They have alienated themselves from HIM, by believing lies and perverting His character.

 2010/10/13 19:50









 Re:

Quote:
Denny Kenaston

Isn't this the same man that preached at the Revival conferences?

 2010/10/13 19:58
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
Many a people groups who did not know the Lord and lived in polygamy, but after they came to know the Lord had to give up their 10 or 20 wives whom they many children with. They still supported those wives and children and remained to be fathers and much better ones to their children .



I'm just curious, can you provide the scripture verse that says a Christian man may only have one wife? I'm not talking about a person who wants to be an overseer or a deacon in the church, or a king of Israel. Just your average new convert.

 2010/10/13 20:20Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Reading what this woman did, and what she persuaded her husband to do-- yes, her HUSBAND-- persuaded him, I mean, with the counsel of the elders of this group... it just pained my heart and left a bad taste in my mouth.

Another marriage shipwrecked... and by whom? Not by the rocks and reefs of the world, of which there are many, but by Christian "elders."

No wonder our Lord Jesus Christ must come forth in this hour in such FIRE and LIGHT that it exposes all that is falsely done in His Name, and consumes it all!

...By the way, here is a group that has married the word "remnant" to their own little denomination. "Heart of the Remnant," they call their publication.


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Allan Halton

 2010/10/13 21:25Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

I really like Denny Kenaston's ministry. His "Godly Home" series have blessed my family and I greatly.

I would fall into the group "Divorce beliefs are off".


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Christiaan

 2010/10/13 22:16Profile





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