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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1964


 What grace is this?


Kathleen Naylor, Myerstown, PA

Dear readers, I write this to you in my dear Savior’s name, for His glory.

I grew up a strict Catholic girl, never hearing God’s plan of salvation. I was never told to read the Bible and never knew anything about a personal relationship with God.

At the age of twenty, I was married to Robert. This five-year marriage was agonizing, as he committed adultery numerous times. (I have long ago forgiven him and have been praying for his salvation for 28 years.) It ended up that I had to live with a family in Doylestown, Pa. Divorce papers were delivered to me at this home. I knew nothing of it and never signed anything.

Two years later, I was working in a convenience store in Piscataway, NJ. I felt very distant from God. I whispered a prayer in my heart as I worked, “God, draw me closer to you.” I did not yet realize that God had even heard my prayer.

Three weeks later, an older gentleman came in the store and began reciting scriptures and telling me about Jesus. Through his persistent witnessing, I was brought to salvation, in 1982.

In 1985, I married Mark Naylor, who was also a babe in the Lord. We met at Central Bible Church in Boundbrook, NJ. Our pastor told us it was okay to get remarried, since both our spouses had committed adultery on us and we were the innocent ones. We believed him and were so very happy together. We had two children. Never could we imagine the agony we would go through later.

Up until about 2002, we had experienced Pentecostal, Evangelical, Baptist, and Non-Denominational churches, but not one ever taught on divorce/remarriage, modest apparel, or the dangers of “eternal security” teachings. Half of the people in those churches were divorced and remarried.

According to the following Scriptures, marriage is “until death do you part.”

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Ro. 7:2-3
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Lu. 16:18
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Ps. 12:6
We moved to Bethel, PA, approximately eight years ago. We visited Ephrata Christian Fellowship for a while, but God led us strongly to Harmony Christian Fellowship, where we have been attending for over seven years.

One evening, precious David and Cherie Cooper came to visit Mark and I. With love, anguish, and Scripture pouring out of their godly hearts, they explained to us that we were living in adultery. We were shocked to hear all of this, as no one had ever made it known to us before. How I wish it had been! How I wish I had been under godly preachers as I am now, who preach all of God’s Word and not just tickle the ears and keep the pews filled. What agony this would have prevented!

That evening will be forever in my memory. I’ll never forget the pain on Cherie’s face. What loving, obedient servants they were to come to us with such devastating news, the truth. Oh, how I thank my Lord for sending them!

However, I was not thankful at the time. I was stunned and confused. That evening, as Mark and I began the search of our lives, the Coopers kindly left us with some tapes to listen to on this truth. I nearly wore those tapes out over the next year of my seeking God, all the while hoping it was not true.

Satan was not happy. This became more evident as my seeking was consuming me. Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments. Ps. 112:1 Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul. Ps. 66:16

How the dear sisters at Harmony church loved me, patiently showed me Scripture, and fervently prayed. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. He. 4:12

I spoke to Mark, saying that I’d be moving out of our bedroom into our daughter Kelsi’s room if God showed me that we really were living in adultery. At one point in my search, I spent three days with a precious Christian lady friend in another state. For three days, all we did was search the Scriptures and pray. We went to a Christian bookstore and stayed there for six hours, reading every book we could find on the subject. The books we read were by some very well-known, looked-up-to authors, pastors, and speakers.

Sadly, not even one believed what God says in His Word about divorce and remarriage. I was still confused as we left the store. When the three intense days of searching, studying, and agonizing were over, my friend—who is one of the most intelligent, kind ladies I’ve ever met—looked at me and said, “Well, Kath, you’re convinced now that you and Mark are okay, right?”

I said, “No, I am not convinced.”

I’ll just say that God’s love and patience for me is so deep. He knew that I was a thickhead, but he also knew that I wanted to be clear with Him and walk pleasing in His sight, in all His truth. So, for the one-hundredth time, I knelt down in my prayer closet (the bathroom) and cried out to Him: “Lord, I beg you to show me the truth, and I will obey You.”

It was a moment I will never forget. God graciously and lovingly poured out His truth into my heart right there, no doubts at all ever again—I was living in adultery.

I nearly crumpled to the floor with agony, but also with relief, if you can comprehend those feelings. I had desperately wanted God to tell me, “You and Mark are okay.” That evening, I told Mark what God had revealed to me, and even in his agony he so kindly and respectfully said, “You and Kelsi take the big room, and I’ll take Kelsi’s room.” Her room is the size of a stamp.

I tell you this in all truthfulness, that even though Mark didn’t share my conviction on the subject at that time, he never looked at me the same way again. Never again did he touch me or ask me. This is only God’s love and mercy. Mark had nothing but agony, love, and respect in his heart. We lived as brother and sister, yes, under the same roof. But the adultery stopped. This continued for a time, until God eventually worked it out that Mark moved into a separate home.

I’m so grateful to my Lord for all He has done and is doing. How He sustains me! How He carries me!

I’m so thankful for my brothers and sisters in Christ who help, love, and encourage me. They cannot fathom just how much. I cannot stress enough to read the Scriptures on divorce and remarriage. God’s Word is true and clear.

We must set aside our own pain and dwell on the pain it causes our Lord if we remain in adultery. We must repent. When all is said and done, only what is done for Christ will last. Eternity is forever. To God be all the glory! ~


Her Husband's Story

Mark Naylor, Bethel, PA

I grew up Catholic, following all the Sacraments. The Church led me to believe that I was going to heaven, but in my heart I knew I wasn’t saved.

I got married early in life, at age 18, to a girl named Karen. Everything went fine for the first four years, but then we began having arguments and disagreements. Karen was working evenings, and one night when I went to see her, she wasn’t there. I found out she was having a relationship outside the marriage. It seemed that my entire life was coming unraveled. I remember one night when I was crying and hurting pretty bad, being outside gazing into the heavens. I didn’t truly know the Lord at this time, but I said, “God, if you’re out there, make yourself known to me.”

I started using drugs and alcohol around this time, to cover up the pain inside. My mom noticed what I had been doing, and it hurt her pretty bad. She came one night to talk to me and pleaded with me to stop using drugs and alcohol. She told me that my brother Butch had started going to this church called Central Bible Church, and asked if maybe we could go together on the next Sunday. I went, just to make her happy. Going to this church was a lot different than going to the Catholic Church. The people seemed friendly and happy, and I just couldn’t figure out what made them tick. It took about three Sundays before the Lord opened my eyes, ears, and heart to the gospel message. I got saved that day.

I tried to reconcile my marriage to Karen, but she told me she was seeing somebody else and didn’t want things to change. A few months later, I tried leading her to Christ, but she said she wasn’t ready for a commitment at that time. She asked me for a divorce a few months after that, so we got divorced.

It was about two months after this that I met Kathleen. We became very good friends, and our relationship started to grow. I went to the pastor to see if it would be okay for us to get married. He said it was, because both of our spouses had committed adultery, and besides, “God was a God of second chances.” So Pastor Bill married us. We had two daughters together.

As time moved on, we attended various Evangelical churches, but ended up in Oregon in a home church, and home schooling. This led us to the Godly Home tapes by Bro. Denny Kenaston. In 2002, we moved to Pennsylvania and started attending Ephrata Christian Fellowship, and enjoyed it very much.

One day, Bro. David Cooper asked if he could come over and talk to us. He confronted us on our being divorced and remarried. I took it pretty hard and asked him to leave. I didn’t believe what they were saying was right. I was distressed in my spirit, and started searching the Scriptures. I was hanging on to Matthew 19:9 and Matthew 5:31-32, believing that infidelity on the part of a spouse justified putting him/her away. But I couldn’t find any scriptures that supported remarriage.

For two years, I continued to search, searching in the Greek and Hebrew, hoping that the church’s stand on divorce and remarriage was wrong. It was during this period that Kathleen and I separated rooms. I somehow just wanted to hang on to the fact that I was right, that Kathleen and my “marriage” was okay in God’s eyes. At one point, I thought I found scriptures in 1 Corinthians 7 to support our being married, but as I read them in context, I saw that they were talking about something completely different than I thought. I realized that I was only divorced from my first wife by worldly law, and not by God’s law. I also read something that confirmed this in Romans 7:2-3. It said that the only separation that would allow me to be remarried in God’s eyes would be the death of my first spouse. Even though at that moment I knew it was true, I still did not want to accept it. My walk with the Lord started really growing cold, and I wasn’t fellowshipping.

In November 2007, Kathleen and I separated houses. Kathleen was afraid that I would be upset, but I respected her wishes and moved out. We stayed friends and are still friends today.

After I moved, I read the series of articles in The Heartbeat of the Remnant by Dean Taylor titled “The Exception Clause.” The information there helped back up what I already knew to be true. Regrettably, I was still too stubborn to acknowledge this truth out front.

In May 2009, we went to a tent meeting in Amherst, Virginia at Dayspring Christian Fellowship. While Jerry Mawhorr was preaching, I felt the Lord tugging at my heart. The Holy Spirit let me know that I was wrong for being angry at Him and at the church people who had told me the truth. I asked the Lord’s forgiveness, and He restored me.

I thank the Lord that He put it into my heart to ask David Cooper for forgiveness for the way I felt toward him. I visited him a few weeks after I got back from the meeting, and the Lord blessed our time together. I also asked the other brothers that I had been bitter against for forgiveness. I am now back in fellowship at Harmony Christian Fellowship. I thank the Lord for His love, patience, and mercy in my life. ~

Now that is 'evil at work'!
To be more accurate and personal, place a D before 'evil'.

Some say they're a testimony of grace, but I say to you that they're a testimony of disgrace.

These words were written at the beginning of the article, "Yes, they are testimonies of “the true grace of God!” 1 Pe. 5:12".

These were in a magazine called, "The Heartbeat of the Remnant" published by Charity Ministries.

I tell you the truth, there are numerous others who have also had their marriages and family destroyed by these impostors and their lies.




 2010/10/12 22:46Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re: What grace is this?

Is this story about Charity Ministries, or this couple. Not sure what your getting at. Blessings!


_________________
Christiaan

 2010/10/12 23:40Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, it says that fornication is reason enough for divorce.. they are not qualified to be elders or deacons because he is not a husband of one wife but to be holier than abraham,isaac,jacob,david etc.?Jesus did not condemn the woman at the well...or the woman caught in adultery... we all make mistakes in life and Gods grace is new every morning.even the man who had relations with his mother in law was restored. God does hate divorce because it has to do with covenant...God is a covenant keeper.jimp

 2010/10/13 0:52Profile









 Re: What grace is this?

What pure Garbage!!

That woman was deceived.

Her relationship with Mark was A ok.

She got duped by "loving legalists".

God would have worked it out that she would have staid with Mark.

He worked it out for David and Bathsheba and worse, David killed the husband and he still got the woman.

There is just no way that that woman is happy today.

I feel for Mark. I feel sorry for him that they allowed two people into their homes and told them the, "truth" with such love and concern. Like JW's I would have shown them the door.

What grace is this? It's dis grace!


 2010/10/13 9:28
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
He worked it out for David and Bathsheba and worse, David killed the husband and he still got the woman.



Though I don't disagree with anything you've said, David is probably not the best example to use in a situation like this, as by the New Testament standard, her husband was no longer living when the two were married. Just saying.

The "loving legalists" would probably probably just fire back with something of this sort I'm sure.

I wonder about their children....

 2010/10/13 9:37Profile









 Re:

I hear ya Everest, it's just that where do we draw the line with law?

We seem to sit under it at ours or someone else's expense or whenever it suits us.

We are dead to divorce, but if divorce happens which is a sin, we have an advocate with the father Christ Jesus our Lord who will forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Does forgiveness stop at Divorce?

The way people talk it seems it does. To them it's the unpardonable sin.

You bring up a good question Everest about the Children. God would have us to visit the fatherless and widow, but these children are now without a father because of religious nuts. These kids will no doubt hate God because God broke up their marriage.

Satan is happy.

 2010/10/13 10:06









 Re:

Quote:
There is just no way that that woman is happy today.



Unfortunately, there are many legalist people that are "happy". I live around many of them. Does a person that is deceived, know they are deceived? No. They think with all their heart that they are not. Many examples of this down through history.

Lord keep us from being deceived by men and our own heart.

 2010/10/13 11:15
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

While I never have studied this subject extensively, I can see that almost all of your answers have nothing to do with what the Scriptures says to the matter, but rather sentimental feelings.
Jimp says:…..but to be holier than abraham,isaac,jacob,david etc.?

(1) I am sure jimp that you are not holier than Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, but I do not assume that you are married to more that one wife at the same time as Abraham and Jacob did. It is not a matter of being holier but a matter of being under a different dispensation. 29But this I say, brethren, the time is short: that those that have wives be as though they have none;

30And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
31And they that use this world, as though they use it not : for the fashion of this world passeth away.


(2) Both the woman at the well and the woman caught in adultery were not saved at the time. God is willing to receive anyone no matter what their sin is , but not without the command: Go and sin no more!!! as he did to the woman that was caught in adultery.


(3) There is a difference between a mistake and sin. There are sins done in ignorance, they may call those mistakes although in God’s eyes they are sins, But the times of ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


(4) While we know that Paul wrote 4 epistles to the Corinthians and not only two, therefore we really don’t know that he is speaking of the same person in 2 Corinthians 2 . However, this is what he says in 1 Corinthians 5:

1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


That was the judgment the Apostle had demanded take place with an unrepentant sinner.
But if the sinner repents, the church should receive him in love, and show him grace.



_________________
Fifi

 2010/10/13 14:50Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:


Snuf,
All your statements are declarative and absolute.

What pure Garbage!! ( Absolute statement)

That woman was deceived.( Absolute statement)


Her relationship with Mark was A ok. ( Absolute statement)


She got duped by "loving legalists".( Absolute statement)


God would have worked it out that she would have staid with Mark. ( Absolute statement)


There is just no way that that woman is happy today. ( Absolute statement)

snuf, you must be omniscient. I always knew that only God was omniscient but now I know that I didn’t know as I aught to know.

Snuf also said:

“He worked it out for David and Bathsheba and worse, David killed the husband and he still got the woman.”

What a Christian advice!!! However, I suggest you read the whole story of David and the consequences the man after God’s own heart was not spared to suffer for God has no respect of person. God told David: You sin is forgiven , but because of what you have done, you caused the enemies of God to rejoice.

Every one who rejoices in David’ sin ( meaning to be glad that he did what he did and to mention it to others that they may follow the same course of action ) IS AN ENEMY OF
GOD.


_________________
Fifi

 2010/10/13 14:52Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

Many have mentioned the children.

Many a people groups who did not know the Lord and lived in polygamy, but after they came to know the Lord had to give up their 10 or 20 wives whom they many children with. They still supported those wives and children and remained to be fathers and much better ones to their children .

Those who fear that the children would have hatred for God because of that are mistakes and earthly minded, for God rewards those who obey Him. But if God Almighty chooses not to reward them in this life, so be it.


I think of the martyrs who for the sake of following in Christ foot-steps, had to denounce everything in this life, one of whom was John Bunyan of whom it was said:

The enforced separation from his wife and children, especially his tenderly loved blind daughter, Mary, was a continually renewed anguish to his loving heart. "The parting with them," he writes, "hath often been to me as pulling the flesh from the bones; and that not only because I am somewhat too fond of these great mercies, but also because I should often have brought to my mind the many hardships, miseries, and wants my poor family was like to meet with, should I be taken from them; especially my poor blind child, who lay nearer to my heart than all beside. Poor child, thought I, thou must be beaten, thou must beg, thou must suffer hunger, cold, nakedness, and a thousand calamities, though I cannot now endure the wind should blow on thee. O, the thoughts of the hardships my blind one might go under would break my heart to pieces." He seemed to himself like a man pulling down his house on his wife and children's head, and yet he felt, "I must do it; O, I must do it."






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Fifi

 2010/10/13 14:53Profile





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