SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : I got a hole in my old garment and some old wine skins What do I do?

Print Thread (PDF)

PosterThread
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 I got a hole in my old garment and some old wine skins What do I do?

Matthew 9:16"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. 17Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."

I have a question pertaining to this verse what is Jesus actually talking about here? Is it the comparison of the Old Covenant to the New? I'll admit I have thought of this verse as I read it but never really understood what Jesus was talking about. Could someone enlighten this ignorant brother? :) Any response would be appreciated THANKS.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2010/10/7 19:31Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: I got a hole in my old garment and some old wine skins What do I do?

You're old way of life is incompatible with the new way of life. Everything has to change.

That's how I've understood the essence of this parable.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/10/7 19:51Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2749
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: I got a hole in my old garment and some old wine skins What do I do?

Quote:
I have a question pertaining to this verse what is Jesus actually talking about here? Is it the comparison of the Old Covenant to the New?



I don't think He's talking about Old/New covenant here. Remember the context is concerning why His disciples didn't fast like John Baptist's did.

I think He's simply laying down a principle for how new believers should be handled, with gentleness. You can't expect them to learn everything at once, if you do, it could do more harm than good.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2010/10/7 19:57Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: I got a hole in my old garment and some old wine skins What do I do?

The context is the question of fasting as a specific part of the law. John's disciples were still fasting after the law and the traditions of the Jews concerning the law. Jesus' disciples did not. Jesus ushered in a new covenant. I think His point is that one cannot fit the new covenant into the framework of the law. I would say that the book of Galatians is Paul's answer to a very similar question of the blending of the law and the new covenant. The two are as incompatible as new and old cloth and as new wine in old skins that have already been stretched to their limit.

A further application of what Jesus said can be made in our personal lives. Part of the new covenant was the possibility of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. The new covenant and the movings of the Holy Spirit can never be fit into the framework of dead religious legalism. It is simply too much for this old wineskin and will cause it to burst.


_________________
Travis

 2010/10/7 21:04Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Mr 2:19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

Mr 2:20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

This fasting has nothing to do with food. Spiritual food, maybe, I am still hanging out on this. I do know that if Christ were here, which He is in the Believer, there is no need of fasting, because His Spirit is now our spirit.

Old wine skins or new, that is the question. Am I trying to keep the Law that is the fill of the old wine skin, or am I keeping the Christ in me as my fill of new wine?

Lots of doctrine in these scriptures.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2010/10/8 21:52Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Actually, although Christ is in the believer (if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His), and although we can be filled with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit of God (but if the Spirit of Him who raised Christ from the dead dwell in you...), we still need to fast, and fasting is a very powerful discipline.

God spoke through Isaiah that the fast that God had chosen was not one in which we afflict our soul and spread sackcloth and ashes under us as though our fasting somehow causes God to see our affliction and take us seriously because of it where He would no have been predisposed to take us seriously before. So often we pray and if we don't see any answer we take it up a notch, afflict ourselves, and fast and pray as though that will somehow twist God's arm or change His mind. This is not the fast God has chosen. Obviously it is not a fast for strife, debate, or out of legalism that God has ordained.

But the fast He ordained is this.

Isa 58:6-10
(6) Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
(7) Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
(8) Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
(9) Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
(10) And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:

It is the breaking of bondage in our own lives. We are spirit, soul, and body and only one third of us is born again. We still struggle with the flesh. Fasting breaks the power of the flesh in our lives and causes us to be more sensitive to the Holy Spirit. If we have trouble hearing God's voice, it is probably because we are walking too much in the flesh and not in the spirit. We break these yokes by fasting. Our flesh rises up and says, "I am hungry, feed me." We must rely on the Holy Spirit and say, "No, we will not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." I have gone without food for 24 hours and it did not phase me. I have decided to fast for 24 hours and within one hour I thought I was going to starve. Fasting food is definitely spiritual, believe me. To maintain a fast takes prayer and reliance on the Holy Spirit.

You can fast things other than food, and it is effective. Some need to fast their smart phones, some the internet, some need to fast Coca-Cola (that has been me from time to time.) Anything that has a hold on our flesh needs to be fasted so that the bondage is broken.

I know this is a bit of a rabbit trail from the original post, but since it came up I thought I would comment.


_________________
Travis

 2010/10/9 9:46Profile
Lesserlight
Member



Joined: 2010/9/19
Posts: 134


 Re: I got a hole in my old garment and some old wine skins What do I do?

As I see it this passage is an allegory for the spirit and soul

The soul is a tabernacle for the spirit

The Holy Spirit of God will not fit in the soul of man....... it rips it apart because the two are not compatible

The soul of man is only a match for the spirit of man (allows the two to become one flesh, life etc.)

The Holy Spirit is given to us as a seed that is intended to bring forth a "holy soul" that is the mind, will and emotions of Jesus Christ.

Blessings

Doug

 2010/10/10 7:04Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Not only dividing the soul from the spirit with two different intentions for salvation but even to the dividing the spirit Satan out and Christ in and the bringing of the soul to the understanding of this new life in Christ, which the Holy Spirit teaches us in our soul mind, not in our spirit for that is now the Spirit of Christ which needs no teaching. Our minds need to be renewed to the Mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit is the only one that does it.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall (((((teach))))) you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

This is our renewed minds to the Mind of Christ.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of me:

This is the Teacher of Truth and Godliness and righteousness and wisdom and sanctification and redemption because this is what Christ has been made in us, and the Holy Spirit reveals this to us in our soul minds to the Mind of Christ.

John 16:12-16 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

The Spirit of Truth the Holy Spirit when He comes and what He receives from Jesus Christ, He will show it unto us.
We are Born again of the Fathers Incorruptable Seed Jesus Christ and we most certainly are the birthed son's of God by the Spirit of Christ in us.

We now have in our spirit the same DNA of the blood of Christ by faith and even more, "If you don't drink my blood and eat my flesh we are none of His, Communion, which is of the Father by the Son who is now our life and the life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of God.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Our, "by nature" is the Christ in us who kept the Law Perfect and yet the Law makes no one perfect but the Christ in us does, He is our new nature as of the Father. Not our old nature of Satan our father and the things of him we did, no longer are we in bondage, we are free and "If the Son shall set you free, we are free indeed".

In Christ, a son and child of My Father by the Christ birthed in me: Phillip

I am not a people of God as the Nation of Israel is.


_________________
Phillip

 2010/10/12 2:22Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy