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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The Real John Wesley

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Joined: 2009/5/13
Posts: 74

 The Real John Wesley

 2010/9/20 17:47Profile

Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: The Real John Wesley

A man may be rightly judged by
the glory he brings to GOD in
serving the cause of the cross
and our Savior. Wesley's zeal
and passion for Christ are a
matter of record. He and
Whitefield were mightily used
of GOD to stir the sleeping
Church and bring revival!!

Martin G. Smith

 2010/9/20 18:04Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 33210
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Wesley left the moravians but took much of moravianism with him. It touched him as it did wesley and gave both of them the foundations of their walk with Christ and the New Birth message.

Wesley organized what whitefield did not. God was working and both extreme views of theology sadly some did polorize to but the moravians where the ones that would not hold to either and rather did the work of God silently bringing glory to God.

Wesley though going to extemes on holiness did set a wonderful foundation in the church in england and america. Wesley did not seperate because he was a divider but rather he was a seeker of the truth and desired a true manifestation of the church.

He has the same burden that zinzendorf did was not to namely establish a "new" church but rather to minister to and organize the church "within the church". Wesley died with the methodist denomination not seperating from anglicanism it was a part of it till the end of his life. This shows his deep love for the "Church" and not to divide believers from it. He was more possibly reacting to the moravians extreme to have believers not associate at all with the church of england which in a sense was fine but to wesley that was something he did not want! Like Luther before him he wanted to reform the church system he was a part of.

All men are fallable but wesley you would have to look twice to first discern that. His life brought much glory to God.

SI Moderator - brother Greg

 2010/9/20 18:50Profile

Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 905

 Re: The Real John Wesley

Whatever people mean by "Sinless Perfection". If that doctrine teaches that it is impossible to sin, it obviously is not biblical, for the Bible teaches no such thing. But, on the other hand, if it teaches it is possible not to sin, then a simple reading in the Scriptures would prove it's truth. I believe that Wesley approved the latter.
In fact, we will not see revival before such teaching takes place again in the church.
All those whom God used in to bring revival such as, Jonathan Edwards, Goerge Whitefield, Wesley, Finney and others were poeple that held a high view of the Holiness of God and His demands for holiness in His people.

"Be ye holy even as I am holy." Saith the Lord.


 2010/9/20 19:25Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 33210
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Amen. I agree fully. Oh how we need biblical new birth, holiness and The gospel that centers on the Person of Jesus Christ and the implications if His life and Death!

I am so tired of 2 camps of believers that polarize to one extreme or the other. The bible is in the middle and I am going to stay there also.

SI Moderator - brother Greg

 2010/9/20 19:36Profile

Joined: 2009/5/13
Posts: 74

 Re: The Real John Wesley Part 2

 2010/9/20 21:02Profile

Joined: 2009/5/13
Posts: 74


Greg, I praise and glorify the Lord for the way He used both Whitefield and Wesley in these awakenings. I too long for a revival of the Holy Spirit and the Truth of the Word of God.

And I too believe we need a biblical balance in our doctrine. But who decides what's an "extreme" point of view? After all, I can say my stance is balanced and that your position of being in the middle is "extreme".

My conscience is held captive to the Word of God. I personally hold to one of the positions that you deem to be extreme. And I didn't come to it because of the preaching of men. The Lord taught me these great and glorious doctrines by His Spirit through His Word. When I read the Bible I don't see how you can just stay "in the middle" with regards to salvation and still be theologically consistent; either man chooses God or God chooses man. Either man in heaven will say "I'm here solely because of the grace of God", or "I'm here by the grace of God, plus what I did." Pelagius and Augustine knew that. Ariminus understood that, and so did the Synod of Dort. Many of preachers you promote here understood and understand that as well.

Blessings to you. I will not be responding to any contentious replies from anyone, I'm not interested in a debate. The point of this whole thread is that Wesley was a mere man, as was Whitefield, and we all have our faults. None of us should be exalted above measure.

 2010/9/20 21:36Profile


In regard to this always contentious debate, Tozer writes........

" I refuse to fight over theories, but I am looking for the fellowship of the burning heart. I am looking for men and women who are lost in worship, those who love God until He is the sweetheart of the soul."

" I thank God that I escaped from doctrinal hairsplitters and theological niceities. I thank God I was fanatical enough to shut my eyes and jump, and God took care of what is left."

Can I just add that a man is either saved or he is not, God knows. Everything else is pride, ego and sophistry and Satan has had much mileage out of this issue. I met with a brother two weeks ago for lunch, Edger Reich. He was a speaker at the New Jersey conference and we pray together every Tuesday night. For two hours we spoke passionatly about the one we love, the grand obsession of our lives, Jesus. When I walked away I my heart burned within me. I know nothing of what side of this particular issue he would come down on, but this I know, he loves Jesus and has been radicaly transformed by Him, a new Frank

 2010/9/20 22:24

Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 814
Alberta, Canada


Good word, Frank.

It helps me to think of this issue in terms of the cherubim. Ezekiel saw these awesome beings functioning in such fearful harmony that at times he spoke of them in the singular instead of the plural. Yet there were four of them.

And as he saw them moving he said, "Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not as they went; they went every one straight forward" (Ezek. 1.9).

Now, that is totally incomprehensible to the human mind. For they had four faces: "the face of a man, and the face of a lion on the right side: and they had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle" (vs. 10).

"And they went straight forward..." (vs. 12). Impossible. Totally impossible. How can all four faces be going "straight forward" at the same time? If the one goes forward, the other surely has to be going backward!

At least from the perspective of our own puny minds it seems so. Yet this is a glimpse into a very powerful spiritual reality. And it's given to cause us to fall on our face, not try to figure it out.

And so it is with this Cal/Am thing. Personally, I think Cal and Am... their "wings" are joined together; they are both going "straight forward." It's not a matter of if I embrace the one, I am in opposition to the other. No, there is beautiful truth, needed truth, on both sides. And I, for one, am content to leave it that way... and fall on my face and worship Him who is many-faceted Truth. In Him these seemingly irreconcilable things are reconciled.

Can we not let Him be God, and find our place at His feet in humble worship?

Allan Halton

 2010/9/20 23:35Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 805

 Re: The measure of a man...

 2010/9/22 0:23Profile

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