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Discussion Forum : General Topics : what does a Rabbi say?

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brodav9
Member



Joined: 2008/2/22
Posts: 173
Sylacauga Alabama

 what does a Rabbi say?

It was very interesting to hear what a minister said concerning faithful Rabbis. These would be Jewish Rabbis in our day and time. He spoke of experience. That was talking to Rabbis of true integrity.

The statements of Rabbis are a real proof because they are faithful to the Jewish roots of their religion. They may have made a mistake and not received Jesus but they do something that Christians must not do.

The question was presented--do you as a Rabbi receive tithes. The answer was amazing-- we who are Rabbis of other tribes than Levi are not entitled to the tithes. It would be a deception. the example is that if the Rabbi decended from the tribe of Benjamin or Judah etc. they were not allowed by the word of Torah or --our bible. to receive what was only entitled to the Levite priests.

The Levites were to give tithes to the Levite priests but they were not doing so, God rebuked them and said they were robbing God.

Today those who are collecting tithes for anyone but the Levite priests are robbing God's people. The minister says Those who pay tithes are as guilty of sin as those who require it because it isn't bible.

When Jesus went to the cross he became heir of all things. Not because he was of the tribe of Levi but Judah. If he owns all then he deserves all. The reason we don't have to give him everything is because we are joint heirs. That means we give from our hearts according to the righteous need. It is a sweet smelling savor to God when we give righteously and not because we are under a law to give lest we be under a curse. The widow who gave 2 mites gave all she had. It was from the heart not because she had to.


_________________
David

 2010/9/15 7:54Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7452
Mississippi

 Re: what does a Rabbi say?

I find Jewish rabbis' insights interesting...and this one is no exception.

I heard a Jewish insight given on the 3rd commandment "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain". They say it refers to speaking in the LORD's name without the inspiration from the LORD. We always considered this to mean the use of profanity. Seems to me that both interpretations are correct.

I hope you get more responses, Brodav.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2010/9/16 12:15Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

To use the Name of the LORD; you must
understand that you are in HIM, of HIM,
for HIM! Anything else is vain.


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2010/9/16 12:19Profile









 Re:

He is right about one thing, Tithing is Old Testament. Of course to a Rabbi, there is no NT.

There were three sorts of tithes to be paid from the people (besides those from the Levites to the priests); (1) To the Levites, for their maintenance, Num 18:21,24; (2) For the Lord's feasts and sacrifices, to be eaten in the place which the Lord should choose to put his name there Deut. 14:22-24; (3) Besides these two, there was to be, every third year, a tithe for the poor, to be eaten in their own dwellings. Deut. 14:28,29"

 2010/9/29 18:43









 Re:

Tithings 10 percent known origins are of Abraham and Melchizedek.

Since we who believe are children of Abraham, and Jesus is our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, tithing is just part of this for us.

The Levitical way of tithing 23+% was part of the metathesis into Jesus priesthood.
(see Hebrews regarding this transition.)

The 10th is the bare minimum and merely an observable standard. It's not about exacting a certain amount, but a recoginition of God our source.

Our faith in Jesus Christ is about giving everything to Him for Him because He gave us His life, and our Father will now give us all thing.

The issues of tithing is not giving of your posession but giving Christ all our being, doings, and what comes about through this.


Please note Jesus words to the Pharisees:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

~Mt. 23.23-24



Shalom,
gregg

 2010/9/30 7:37









 Re:

When you do a serious study of what the New Testament teaches about money, supporting the local church, underwriting missionary efforts, supporting the poor, etc. -- and contrast your findings with the teaching of the Old Testament -- you can summarize your findings with two words: PAY and GIVE


The Old Testament requirement of tithing is definitely a "paying" situation, not a "giving" one. Even the "Offerings" were required. They were not "offerings" in the sense of a spontaneous desire and decision to impart some of your assets to someone else. The OT Offerings were specific requirements of the people that had to be fulfilled according to very specific, detailed rituals carried out by the Levitical Priesthood in the context of Temple worship.


Everyone agrees that you pay something that you owe. It is a responsibility and a requirement. It is not a gift. On the other hand, it is equally true that a gift is not a requirement. A gift is something that you give that you didn't have to give. It is not given because you must. It is not given out of necessity. It is not given under compulsion. Otherwise, it would not be a gift. It would be a payment.


Let's look at II Corinthians 8 and 9:


Chapter 8
2Cor 8:1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2Cor 8:2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
2Cor 8:3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
2Cor 8:4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
2Cor 8:5 And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.
2Cor 8:6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
2Cor 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
2Cor 8:8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
2Cor 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
...
2Cor 8:19 And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:


Chapter 9


2Cor 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Cor 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
2Cor 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
2Cor 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
2Cor 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
2Cor 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
2Cor 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
2Co 9:14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
2Cor 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.


These passages of scripture are a perfect illustration of the fact that the new covenant is a covenant of grace, not a covenant of law. The Apostle Paul, in writing this passage, reveals that giving is a work of God's grace in a person's heart. And it is clear that what God is wanting is for His people to give of their own accord. He does not want them to give in obedience to a command. That would be LAW! He wants His people to allow His grace to work in their hearts, and give freely.


Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, drives a nail in the coffin of tithing. It is buried forever along with circumcision and every other aspect of Old Testament Law.


2Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


God no longer wants His children to pay under compulsion, but to give cheerfully. It is impossible for the requirement of paying the tithe to remain if God says that our giving is not under compulsion. If you owe it, you are under compulsion to pay it. The very act of paying tithes creates an act of "necessity" and 2 Cor 9:7, says "not grudgingly, or of necessity".


You cannot have it both ways. You cannot say out of one side of your mouth that you are not to act out of necessity, or under compulsion -- and then out of the other side of your mouth say that God requires you to pay tithes.


Paul does "urge" the church several times to be "liberal" (generous) in their giving. But generosity is a foreign concept to the law of tithing. A tithe is 10 percent, no more and no less. You cannot be generous and be under the law of tithes, (whether one of the three OT laws of tithing or all 3 of them). But, today's preachers say that is where "offerings" come in. But that is not right. Not in a Biblical sense, anyway. The offerings of the Bible in the OT consisted of detailed rituals that were just as much a requirement as was tithing.


God wants us to forget the requirements of the Law. He wants us to live in response to the working of His grace in our hearts.


"But shouldn't tithing be the starting place? Shouldn't it be the minimum?"


That would be like saying, "Shouldn't circumcision be the starting place?" "Shouldn't circumcision be the minimum?"


I think if this were true, the New Testament would have stated it, somewhere, just once.


The requirement of tithing has kept God's people in slavery to the Law and has kept them from growing in God's grace.


Also, the offering that Paul and his associates collected was a ministry of the churches. This was part of the ministry of the local churches. This was not some non-church organization. This was not some activity that was outside the ministry of the local churches. It was a vital part of the ministry of these churches.


I point this out because there would be some who would say, "The reason Paul did not appeal to the use of tithes was because this was a special project that was outside the scope of the local church." But, as you can se, that argument does not hold water!


The reason that Paul did not appeal to the use of tithes in this passage -- and in every other passage that he wrote -- is that tithing has no place in the life of a Christian. It is a part of the Old Covenant that has been replaced with something better, in the New Covenant.


The New Testament teaches that we are to be led by the Holy Spirit in every area of our lives. That includes the area of giving. The Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of grace", (Heb 10:29).


Tithing is a form of Legalism that must be opposed because it opens the door to other teachings of legalism in the Church.

 2010/9/30 9:10





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