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Discussion Forum : General Topics : "In Jesus' name, Amen."

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 Re:

by ccchhhrrriiisss on 2010/8/13 8:57:27

Hi Phanetheus...

------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there (3in1)chris,

...have always gotten a kick out of just seeing your posting handle show up on a thread,

There is a river and then there are shifting sinking sands.

i can truly empathise with those through habit or what they are taught has to be done that just is not thought through, but they think that this is the way it has to be done or it's out of line because someone said someone said....

Christmas and saturnalia or baby poppet hung on evergreen green trees to feed chronos so the new year be blessed???


rap dis:
Santa Claus is coming and the kids are gettin' greedy,
oh, it's Christmas time...
They know they've got it comin' cause they've seen it on the TV,
oh, it's Christmas time...
(the words are from a song by Randy Stonehill)

All the symbolism of these when taken at face value and considered as they originated are seen as neo-paganism.

Easter = Oester = Ishtar = Astarte, only variation in name spelling but the meaning remains the same, but the Easter bunny and the egg is the symbolism of the fertility mysteries, and the kultus is openly advocated and people just do it without thinking about the hows and whys.

...and why are the dates of these holidays based on equinox shifts even as the pagans of yore did in veneration to their gawdz.

The things you say can be identified with so much.

------------------------------------------------------------

...but why do i say what i say and for what reason, whether praying or talking to another?

i have grown to despise christianese. It creates a roadblock to those who need to hear about Jesus the most.
It creates a stumbling-block to christians and is as much idolatry as making our own eidelon (idol-servitor)and 'feeding' it.

It's great to hear that you and others think about why we do what we do.

Please do not quit with the book.

It is so tiresome to hear people justify why when they disregard the results and ramifications from it.

Whether people disagree or not, at least this watchman will tell what's up and what's down. Oh, i pray to God that there be no blood on my head or hands for faling to admonish, exhort and correct through the clear truth of scripture in what has been given me, leading towards understanding in doing what points clearly to Jesus and not some tradition of man.

When RoseM started the "In Jesus' name Amen" thread, the words in her first post tell more about the majority than most care to admit. i'm still trying to figure alot of stuff out about all things mentioned by you...and more (especially in regard to doctrine that just is not Bible).

How much of prayer becomes vain repetitions (like the heathen) thinking to be heard for their properly stated oratory?

Saying in the name of Jesus Amen and not understanding the what is being said is nothing more than taking God's name in vain, and Jesus said we shall give account for every idle ( or is that idol?) word spoken.

Just ask people what words like: grace, justify, faith, praise, worship, amen, mercy, holy, believe, glory, etc really mean and instead of admiting that it is all christianese to them too, will provide some haphazard definition (often heard akin to the game 'telephone')that does not even hold half the import of the word that has just been un- or non-defined.

...and then to use phraseology as you wrote about. If this does not even more confuse the issue if faith(fulness) in Jesus ...as if focus on what we do over what He has done is not enough.




A PECULIAR PEOPLE

When Peter says we are a peculiar people, it does not mean we act and dress and groom and speak christianese that is so different that we are the non-understood odd-ball out. Is this what Paul did in becoming all things to all men that he might win some?????

1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

In verse 9, 'peculiar' is emphasising that we are God's chosen. The word picture is of God having drawing a line around us, He double-dog dares anybody to cross it. We can see this in Job, that satan could not touch him because God put a hedge around him. We are redeemed with the price of precious Jesus' blood, and in Him God prizes us as His most valued possession as much as Jesus himself, having exchanged His life-blood onto our redemption.

It is much needed advice and well spoken at the right moment: to "just be yourself" and it will be added, pursue all the fine-tuning as "Looking unto Jesus the pioneer and fine-tuner of our faith(fulness), ( Hebrews 12.2 ) .

God's blessing pour out to all reading this
as your knowing Him abounds more and more
onto every good work:

For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus
unto good works,
which God hath before ordained
that we should walk in them.
Eph 2.10

Shalom,
g

edited: grammatikz and schpellink

 2010/8/13 18:36
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 529


 Re:

RoseM said:

Quote:
I absolutely agree that there is nothing harmless in adding this phrase to the end of prayers.



So in what way is it harmful? If the prayer is sincere and you pray in the name of Jesus, you aren't taking the name of the Lord in vain. I think you meant to say that adding this phrase to the end of prayers is harmless. I would have stated: There is nothing magical about adding this phrase to the end of prayers. But I don't think the phrase is harmful when added to a prayer unless the prayer is not sincere or against the revealed will of God.

 2010/8/14 0:22Profile
RoseM
Member



Joined: 2010/4/28
Posts: 17
Hazelton, BC, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
So in what way is it harmful? If the prayer is sincere and you pray in the name of Jesus, you aren't taking the name of the Lord in vain. I think you meant to say that adding this phrase to the end of prayers is harmless. I would have stated: There is nothing magical about adding this phrase to the end of prayers. But I don't think the phrase is harmful when added to a prayer unless the prayer is not sincere or against the revealed will of God.



Gah! Typos! I definitely don't think that there is anything *harmful* about adding those words to the end of prayers. All that we would like to accomplish in our situation is to help show this fellow that those specific words don't *have* to be added to the end of prayers to make them be in the name of Jesus. It perfectly fine if he wants to pray that way, though. We're just uncomfortable with him expecting us to pray that way when we don't find it anything more than rote tradition (although, on occassion I rephrase that expression in my own words because I like the sentiment).


_________________
Rose

 2010/8/14 1:47Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i have seen hundreds saved and filled with the Spirit while using this in Jesus name sign off...many many healed and delivered from demon activity also. my take is that Jesus left me with power of attorney with in my name ye shall do this and that and as in business you act in a manner to represent the person who gave you that power to the best of your ability...never having to say who you are but always acting in stead of the person you represent.jimp

 2010/8/14 1:57Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

It is interesting to note that the Lord didn't include His Name at the end of the Our Father when teaching his disciples how to pray. Also, you don't see the phrase "in the name of Jesus, Amen" as a conclusion for any of Paul's epistolic prayers, as far as I know.

This is because when one is abiding in Christ, and Christ has become his life, every prayer uttered (silently or vocally) is enveloped in the fragrance of Christ and backed by His authority automatically. Jesus said that if we ask anything in His Name the Father will grant it, not because it was spoken as some sort of phraseology, but because "in My Name" denotes abiding in Him as a branch in the vine. When we pray from out of the Beloved, the Father hears our petitions in the Spirit.

This is why the sons of Sceva had the tables turned on them: they thought they could use the Name like a charm, in much the same way the children of Israel had brought the arc out to fight the Phillistines. And today people still assume phrases like "the blood" and "the Name of Jesus" have a sort of talisman power to vanquish evil irrespective of their abiding in and obeying of God.

I'm not sure where the phrase has its origin, but it seems to flourish most where commands are uttered. Driving out demons, sickness, etc. I would therefore wager that it was a primitive charismatic assembly that began employing it, but how it eventually wound up as a postscript for all forms of prayer is interesting.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2010/8/14 10:02Profile









 Re:

jimp,

I have seen many delivered (aka:saved) from a wide variety of different thing even as the some of which you mention. It is our priveledge exercising power of attourney through the use of Jesus name because of being in Him, we are given the complete authority behind His name.

You are agreed with wholeheartedly.

The point that was first attempted (and emphasised) is in regards to the negligent thoughtless abuse of His name in prayer. Thus, the explaining of details.

Use of His name is to be towards the purpose of glorifying Him and not some catch-all phrase to make us think that now God has to do 'whatever', or a call sign to signify that we are now about to stop praying. We are to be always in prayer and not advocating (in any way) the misgnomer that we think we are done or ('whatever') it is making God perform for us (as though he were some well trained pet) because we said IT.

It is found wanting... that more fear of His very name exist in those who have heard it so much it's old hat, or think that just because they say "in Jesus name" God's gotta' do what they say.

That's all.



Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Acts 19.13-17

Being His, the unseen world knows us, and not just God.

i have laid hands on others with ailments and seen them heal after prayer without the use of His name.

All in all, whether or not done, it is all according to what the Holy Spirit from within directs.

Shabbat Shalom,
g

 2010/8/14 10:28
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i agree that this phrase has been used as a formula and is certainly a learned behavior...imitation of someone else but if someone blesses the food in the name of Jesus it is ok with me ...some even baptize in the name of Jesus lol.jimp

 2010/8/14 10:46Profile
RoseM
Member



Joined: 2010/4/28
Posts: 17
Hazelton, BC, Canada

 Re:

Like I said, I don't have problem with using this formula but I really can't swallow the idea that it must be used. Jesus promises that if we receive children in his name that he will receive us. If we "receive one such child" but don't announce that we're receiving them in the name of Jesus, are we then not doing it in such a way that he will receive us? Jesus also says that where two or three are gathered in his name he is there with them. Do we need to announce every time we meet with other believers that we are officially meeting in his name before Jesus will join us? Both these situations seem absurd but I honestly don't see how they are fundamentally different then to ask whether or not prayer is valid without adding the "in Jesus' name" to the end of the prayer (and for that matter, why not add it at the beginning if it's really that important?).


_________________
Rose

 2010/8/14 10:54Profile
buttermilk80
Member



Joined: 2010/5/9
Posts: 164
Ohio

 Re:

When I was baptized in water, the water completely covered me. To me, this was a symbol of what I must allow to happen with my heart, mind, soul, and strength. I must allow the name, character, obedience, and dedication of Jesus to cover me. I must become what I can of Jesus. When I pray in the name of Jesus I am trying to do the will of He who sent Him. To me, it is not a ritual. And it is not a signature. It's rather a reality. The call to die is a serious and Holy word.

I do not mean to sound like I know it all. Far from it. But this rings far truer than the myth of the letters arranged in a certain order: Jesus. English demands we pronounce it as we do. What then, shall we say to the Chinese?


_________________
Paul Horton

 2010/8/14 18:17Profile





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