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Look again at the verse.

Romans 5:8-10, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His Life."

This makes it clear that while we were sinners and enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son.

I have read Except Ye Repent but Harry Ironside.

We do need repentance to be born again.

NO I do NOT believe in universal salvation.

Christians do not have a sin nature because Christ dealt with that on the cross.

Gal 2:20

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

How many natures did Adam have before sinning? one
How many natures did Adam have after sinning? one

 2010/8/11 7:59

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474

 Re: We were reconciled to God before repentance

I checked out the word reconciled in the NT and found this in 2Corinthians 5:17-21 NASB:

17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

From this scripture we read where God made the first moves to reconcile people to himself. It is the up to the individual to complete the process by accepting this reconciliation.

The idea of reconciliation is always two persons who are at war with each other, coming together in an agreement of what was, what should be and working to this end.

Sandra Miller

 2010/8/11 8:04Profile

 Re: We were reconciled to God before repentance

'For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His Life.'

If you read the verse slowly enough, it is clear that WE shall not BE SAVED (by His life), UNLESS we have (in our own experience) become reconciled, to God; through the death of His Son.

 2010/8/11 9:23

Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3537

 Re: We were reconciled to God before repentance

Nothing can be added to the finished work of Jesus Christ. "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8).

But that does not nullify faith or repentance in the life of the believer. "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6).

When a Christian sins, his fellowship with God is broken. This fellowship is restored through repentance, and the confession of sin. Until we receive our glorified bodies there will always be the need for repentance.

"This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1st John 1:5-10).



 2010/8/11 10:46Profile

 An example of rejection

In 1830, Andrew Jackson the president of the United States, issued a pardon for George Wilson who was convicted of killing a government employee while robbing the U.S. Mail. George had been tried and sentenced to be hanged, but Wilson did a strange thing: when he was handed the actual pardon document, Wilson tore it in pieces and threw it on the floor of his cell.

This prompted a question: what to do with Wilson?

Was he pardoned because of what the President did?

Or did his bold act of rejection nullify the pardon?

This was a legal question, and a tough one at that.

The matter went all the way to the Supreme Court.

To read what the court wrote -

After extended deliberation, the United States Supreme Court put forth the following verdict:

"A pardon is a writing, the value of which is dependent upon the acceptance by the individual for whom it is intended."

George Wilson was to be hanged -- not because there was no pardon, but because the pardon was not accepted.

And so it is with the pardon of God the Father through the sacrifice at the cross of his son Jesus Christ for all mankind.

If the pardon is not accepted, it has no effect and George Wilson must be hanged. And he was.

Now the pardon was real and a done deal once the president signed it. All that George Wilson needed to do was accept it. He did not.

Many have said, "He was crazy!" or "What a fool!" Perhaps they were right.

And so it is with the pardon of God the Father through the sacrifice at the cross of his Son Jesus Christ for all mankind.

We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, but if a person refuses what God has already done, it has no effect for him.

 2010/8/11 13:49

 Re: We were reconciled to God before repentance



11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 2010/8/11 23:27

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