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 Re:

There are few churches that actually do any such charitable work these days.

People who pay their taxes do a considerable amount of giving, and they are not hurt, but blessed.

Just my opinion. I find the organized Churches do more damage to the Christian mind, I see absolutely no use in it. Sorry to be so blunt.

 2010/8/2 21:18
openairboy
Member



Joined: 2003/9/22
Posts: 85


 Re:

Really? Something should be taxed because it occupies space?

That is absurd, sorry to be blunt.

No, the Church should not be taxed, because it is not owned by Caesar. The very nature of taxation is declaring sovereignty over a good or service. The State does not own the Church and the Church should not give tribute to the State.

As is, aside from a poll tax, I don't believe the State should tax individuals. As a culture, we have rejected God and want a king to rule over us, hence the Messianic character of our government and its willingness and our willingness to submit to them taking more than a tithe.

 2010/8/3 0:38Profile
openairboy
Member



Joined: 2003/9/22
Posts: 85


 Re:

How many churches are you truly involved in? I know plenty of churches that give a lot of money away and individuals within those churches that give a lot of their time away.

I find it a bald assertion that the church doesn't do any such charitable work these days, and an assertion that borders on bearing false testimony.

Yes, people who pay their taxes do a considerable amount of giving, but it depends on your definiton of "not hurt, but blessed."

Overall, I believe the economy is actually hurt by taxation and it lowers everyones standards of living, so, yes, I think people, including the poor, are hurt by such actions. Perhaps you think it is a blessing to be coerced into a lower standard of living by people that think they know how to run the world, but I don't.

 2010/8/3 0:41Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,this negative and incorrect view of the church which Jesus is the head of is getting old to this very old man.the beauty of the church has been demonstrated thoughout louisiana and baton rouge...my city...the church i attend when able is in fellowship with many other churches in this area and promotes the other churches and has in the past written 6 figure checks to them when they were in need. last year we had a storm that came thru and you would not believe how wonderful the churches came together to help others in the city...so much so we laughed and prayed for more storms. we have a food distribution center,home for unwed future moms,have started 20000 churches around the world in the last ten years with millions of souls being saved...we have ministry to the poor... the closest church to us we are in fellowship with was honored by pres.bush as having the most impact on the drug community in the nation...preach the message of the cross and average about 20 baptisms a week.i could write for another hour and would not cover how beautiful the church of Jesus in my area is.jimp

 2010/8/3 1:52Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

1 Timothy 2:1-3 (New International Version)

1 Timothy 2
1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior

1 Peter 2:13-14 (New International Version)

Submission to Rulers and Masters
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.


Yes i know some would say "the devil is using the governments of the earth to fight Gods people" to which i say our lord and our king and commander in chief gave us the heads up already this should not surprise us i don't live in the USA but whether its 501c or unrepentant openly Gay bishops being ordained the enemy will use whatever tool at his disposal but be of good cheer little children for greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world.

 2010/8/3 6:17Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2045


 Re: 501c3 and...

For the one who has diligently researched this,to be neutral or indifferent regarding the lawfulness (i.e. God's Law) thereof,could nor would be able to be so with a pure and good conscience.

If any would like to read these lengthy documents they're available online.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1023.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1023.pdf

With the application to file for 501c3 there is also a fee required.

One would not be wise to answer such a question re: 501c3 before doing the proper research.

Below is from an article posted[not written]by Guy Malone:

History Of Our New Nation: One of the reason people came to the new land was to get away from the entanglements of the old world. Quite a few of the reasons dealt with the issue of church and state. People where fleeing a repressive regime where there was a state-sponsored church or the church was running the governments. It was bad enough that people picked up and left. Now we seem to be returning to what our forefathers left on our own free will. We are taking a license to preach from the state, being told what we can and can't say. One of the things that inspired Patrick Henry's speech "Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death" was, he saw a man being beaten for preaching the gospel without a license. If we forget history we are doomed to repeat it. We as Christians need to wake up and take a stand. One thing that sticks in my mind is when I got married : "By the power vested in me by God and the State of California I now...."

What Do I Do Now?
(This section will not be favored by corporate Pastor/Ministers.)

1. You became incorporated, become unincorporated.
2. Talk to your Pastor/Minister about this important issue.
3. Rescind your membership in an incorporated church.
4. Don't incorporate.
5. Don't support incorporated churches.
6. Find an unincorporated church.
7. Start an unincorporated church.
8. Study Your Bible Daily.
9. Pray for the Body of Christ.
10. Witness and lead people to a personal relationship with Jesus.

 2010/8/3 8:08Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Hi Savannah,

"We are taking a license to preach from the state, being told what we can and can't say."

I'm not incredulous that the US Government would want to control free speech and doctrine within churches, but I've not heard of cases where this is actually happening. I'm familiar with the pressure of political correctness, but not with true state-control of churches here in this country.

To your point, if a church organization is not needing to handle large sums of money, then I would agree that it seems much better to stay unregistered with the state. However, to say you shouldn't support "incorporated churches" is placing a non-bliblical legalism on the conscience of the saints. I understand the application of Patrick Henry's words to this situation, but we need to acknowledge that many large charities are brining honor to God by the work they are doing here and abroad.

Indeed, even the founders of Plymouth Colony sought state sanction through a royal charter and partnered with a commercial company to obtain funding and a land patent. (Yet these arrangements didn't offer control of their pulpit or conscience.) It isn't a perfect world, but working within the bounds of secular law can hardly be compared with being part of a state-run church controlled by a "repressive regime".

If we could be shown case-studies that the US Government is actively dictating to churches what they can and cant say, then I think it would be time to go underground. I share everyones concern over this issue. I also commend vigilance against this very real possibility given the political and philosophic gains that socialism seems to be making this country. However, I have not seen that state-controlled religion is presently the reality we live under. I am willing to be shown that I am mistaken.

Mike


_________________
Mike Compton

 2010/8/3 9:44Profile









 Re:

Snufalapagus...

Blanket negative statements about the church is not only foolish, but it displays ignorance and rebellion (akin to witchcraft, according to scripture).

There are a lot of churches, some I know personally, who sacrifice a lot of time and money doing charitable work. Maybe you dont hear about it because they do what they do unto the Lord, and dont toot their own horn about it... but instead lay away treasures in heaven rather than be patted on the back by the likes of you.

And they should be taxed because they are doing damage to the Christian mind? So... who decides this? The government? You're ok with the government deciding on what churches should be taxed based on whether they think the church is teaching properly or not? Seriously?

You need to think before you post. Better a man be thought a fool than to open his mouth (or type on this forum) and remove all doubt.

Krispy

 2010/8/16 13:17





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