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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Eight Scriptural Reasons For House Churches

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
"Day after day, IN THE TEMPLE COURTS AND FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ. Acts 5:42 NIV (capitalizations mine)"



This does seem to point towards the evangelistic thrust of the church in Jerusalem, whereas...

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

...sounds much more like the saints gathering.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2010/7/26 14:34Profile
osandoval
Member



Joined: 2010/2/19
Posts: 89


 Re:

Dear RainMan,
thank you for that much needed reminder. It is easy for us to get in the flesh here if we are not watchful or prayerful.
I am encouraged by how this thread has been flowing for the most part, with much respectful dialogue.

RonaldGoetz, you wrote:
"There is a huge difference: Christians ministering to one another face to face in a living room or courtyard, and Christians all facing forward toward the pulpit and altar.
In one setting we are able to minister to one another as the Scripture exhorts, in the other we are told what to believe and controlled by ordained clergy. [This is a loaded characterization, but it does express how I feel.]"

I think you hit the nail on the head in those statements. With regard to close fellowship, I've heard it said that in in a typical chuch, the only thing you really get to know is the back of the head of the person sitting in front of you.

With regard to the issue of Solomon's Porch/Paul's School of Tyrannus vs the house church settings, I think it's clear that those two kinds of settings were very different in nature and had different purposes. The larger settings seem to have been more evangelistic and instructive, with one person doing all the speaking; the smaller ones more focused on building one another up in the faith, through the mutual exercise of spiritual gifts/ministry toward one another, though some evangelism took place there as well. Both settings are good and have their place in accomplishing certain things in the kingdom of God. And I would say both should be encouraged for the glory of God.

Our contention is that throughout the centuries we have forsaken the latter, and thus disobeyed and ignored several scriptural commands/exhortations regarding the fellowship of the saints; exhortations to be a closely knit community/family.

Some pros of focusing exclusively on large traditional types of settings are:

1)The preaching of the gospel with the result of sinners being saved and brought into the kingdom.

2)Instruction/exhortation to the saints with the result that they will be encourged and exhorted to live a godly and Spirit-filled life.

Some cons are:

1)Believers being used to live an individualistic Christian life, having an attitude of indifference toward the brethren within the church.

2)Believers not being encouraged or exhorted to develop their spiritual gifts within the assemblies, thinking that only certain 'clergy' or special class can exercise their gifts.

That said, I agree that house churches are not the answer to overcoming lukewarmness or apathy. I have seen house churches that foster lukewarmness/self-centeredness and have no evangelistic zeal. And sadly to say, it seems that this is the case for most house churches in America.

There are believers on fire for the Lord in both types of churches.

What I would like to see is the right heart as well as the right setting which fosters genuine Christian love and community.

 2010/7/26 18:49Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I was wondering what you base this statement on? If you are using 'assemblies' as the local covenant community I am not sure there are any examples of their meetings in large numbers.



Good question. Well, I do have in mind chiefly the open-air gatherings that went on in the Temple. No doubt, them doing such would've served an evangelistic purpose. But like the Lord, there can be little doubt that such served to further the discipling of the community as well. But I also have in mind Acts 19:9 where we read about Paul officially breaking with the synagogue, and taking "away the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus." (NASB)

To me, this implies the Christian community was meeting in a rented assembly hall of sorts, and that the apostle Paul had some sort of priority in the teaching ministry being conducted there. Such might have evangelistic overtones as you suggested, but to me, it seems Paul's official outreach was over, and at the school of Tyrannus was the place he was using to teach from. I don't think I'd go as far as to say he was conducting a formal church service as we commonly think of it today. But, this seems to be a larger gathering than just a home gathering, and it does seem to be a gathering where Paul would've had some priority.

Quote:

Then we have the 1Cor 'model' which is highly participatory and has no mention of elders at all. I don't think that means they didn't have them but simply that they were not the focus of the gathering of the saints.



Do consider that though Corinthians does not mention elders, it does seem to give some sense of priority to apostles, prophets, and teachers in regard to their function within an open-assembly.

1 Cor 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. (NASB)

I know exegetically it is probably not Paul's intention to try and give some sort of pecking order here. But, these ministries/gifts seem to be in the foremost of his mind when talking about the subject. So, while services were to be open to the leading of the Spirit, and free for all to minister according to their gift, these ministries seem to help facilitate and guide the meetings in some loose sense of the word.

Just my thoughts :-)


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Jimmy H

 2010/7/27 12:19Profile
osandoval
Member



Joined: 2010/2/19
Posts: 89


 Re:

(quote)
Good question. Well, I do have in mind chiefly the open-air gatherings that went on in the Temple. No doubt, them doing such would've served an evangelistic purpose. But like the Lord, there can be little doubt that such served to further the discipling of the community as well. But I also have in mind Acts 19:9 where we read about Paul officially breaking with the synagogue, and taking "away the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus." (NASB)

To me, this implies the Christian community was meeting in a rented assembly hall of sorts, and that the apostle Paul had some sort of priority in the teaching ministry being conducted there. Such might have evangelistic overtones as you suggested, but to me, it seems Paul's official outreach was over, and at the school of Tyrannus was the place he was using to teach from. I don't think I'd go as far as to say he was conducting a formal church service as we commonly think of it today. But, this seems to be a larger gathering than just a home gathering, and it does seem to be a gathering where Paul would've had some priority.
(quote)

I think Acts 19:10 indicates that these meetings were primarily evangelistic in nature with some Christian instruction included as well. It says, "This continued for two years, so that all the residents of Asia heard the Word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks."

Verse 11 says, "And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,"

It makes sense that many would want to hear what Paul was preaching and teaching at this lecture hall after seeing and hearing of the miracles. This is similar to the Lord's ministry to the multitudes in the gospels.



 2010/7/27 13:27Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus." (NASB)

To me, this implies the Christian community was meeting in a rented assembly hall of sorts, and that the apostle Paul had some sort of priority in the teaching ministry being conducted there. Such might have evangelistic overtones as you suggested, but to me, it seems Paul's official outreach was over, and at the school of Tyrannus was the place he was using to teach from.


I think this is a very interesting note culturally. The pattern of philosophers was often to 'dialogue' in the modern sense of the term and this would have meant quite a bit of two-way communication. This fits very neatly into to pattern of other 'teachers' of his day and I think is an indication of the way that Paul used the cultural patterns of his day in his outreach.

Have you ever read 'The Normal Christian Church Life' by Watchman Nee? He suggests that a distinction can be made between the work of Paul 'in the assembly' and his role as a Herald/Apostle outside the local assembly. It is interesting that we read quite a bit about Paul in the last chapters of the Acts which detail his 'Herald/Apostle' ministry but hardly anything of his relationship to the saints in Rome.

If you have a 'resident big hitter' in a 'house church' setting it can be very daunting for the younger saints, making the 'ministry of the body' a very difficult concept. I am not a 'bit hitter' of Paul's league or anything like it but even in a 'home group' it becomes difficult not to become the 'question answering machine'. I think the presence of someone of Paul's stature would inevitably change the nature of the meeting.

I preach in many different 'house church' settings but I know that my presence changes the dynamics of the group dramatically. A 'time slot' is carved out for the 'visiting preacher' and that can prevent the meetings developing in a 1 Cor pattern.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2010/7/27 13:44Profile









 Re:

by Miccah on 2010/7/26 6:13:49

Phanetheus wrote:

"Though Miccah and Matt really have not tried to prove anything except there is a right towards this..."


And you will not hear me trying to prove House Church to anyone.
------------------------------------------------------------
Bro,

That was an error in the sentence.

It should have read, " ...there is a right way towards this."

i was rushing to get going to work...
and tonight i have to go do repair work at two places.

Anyway, sorry for not double checking b4 sending.

 2010/7/27 16:37
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

Having been a part of a particular movement on the West Coast of the USA my whole life, I can say I honestly appreciate a healthy emphasis on "Both" methods. The home fellowships are emphasized right along with the preaching method in buildings. I have seen great growth in both venues, but have seen hard hearts in both as well. I have seen people heavily involved in a corroboratory forms of discipleship for years, and now I could hardly tell them from a demon. Some, praise God, are the opposite!

I am of the persuasion that faith is the key element to under-gird method. Someone may be practicing a sub-par method while doing it in faith, all the while someone else is practicing what I would view as an ideal method but are doing it out of a Pharisaical motive. It seems to me that God will honor that which is done in faith, over that which is done in a jello-mold.

I am convinced that the keys to the life of the early church were not found in the outward appearances, but the outward appearances were rather an overflow of the inner life of Christ through utter submission to the 'comforts' of the Holy Spirit bodily.

The axe today needs to be laid at the root of the tree. If method, no matter which one, trumps the shepherding of Christ through His Holy Spirit in the church, then who cares whether we meet in the Temple or in the Home? No one can receive the river of life by swimming up its stream, for this stream flows from the heart...its head-waters are the throne of Christ. May the church as a whole re-discover the sweetness, the purity, the radical torrent of this flood of life...

Also, Ron's concern is a valid one, there were also "Famous" brothers in the New Testament that would draw large crowds. There must be a place for the "Preaching" of the word as a demonstration of the Power of the Holy Spirit.

All that being said, I completely identify with the pragmatic concerns raised by Osandoval in the original post. It hurts my heart that we spend so much on ourselves and not on others in the West.

If you think about it, many of us here on this website would not be so spiritually benefited by the sermons available here if it were not for the buildings, sound systems, computers, sound crews, and MP3 Files...


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/7/27 21:09Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Have you ever read 'The Normal Christian Church Life' by Watchman Nee? He suggests that a distinction can be made between the work of Paul 'in the assembly' and his role as a Herald/Apostle outside the local assembly.



Yes, I've read the work, and I find the distinction he makes a very interesting insight. If memory serves correct, he at some point goes so far as to say that most Christians have never been to a local assembly, only apostolic assemblies. Nee is probably right in his insight here.

I think either way a gathering has the potential to go towards either style on it's own, or to experience some sort of blend. I'm not in a house church per say, but I have a several years experience meeting in "small groups" or "cell groups." I've been in some that were very open. I've seen others where it was mostly a one man show. I've also seen others have a mixture of both elements.

Quote:

If you have a 'resident big hitter' in a 'house church' setting it can be very daunting for the younger saints, making the 'ministry of the body' a very difficult concept.



Yes, I've seen this as well. One author I read suggested something along the lines of that those who elders should deliberately not show up at some gatherings, so as to keep from ever becoming a dominating force (as can naturally happen), and to force the rest of the brethren to learn how to function on their own.

I'm not an elder in my church, but even with that, I always try to be very careful when gathered in small group settings to try and keep focus away from me, as often I am the most apt to teach. Sometimes I will go to a meeting determined to say nothing at all. Most of the time I wait a long time to chime in.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/7/27 23:05Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Phanetheus wrote:

"Bro,

That was an error in the sentence.

It should have read, " ...there is a right way towards this."

i was rushing to get going to work...
and tonight i have to go do repair work at two places.

Anyway, sorry for not double checking b4 sending."


No problem my friend. I am not above making mistakes in my typing or mis-quoting scripture at times. Reference the AG thread. Blessings!


_________________
Christiaan

 2010/7/27 23:15Profile









 Re: Multiplication of House Churches

"If a House Church is doing its job, then that House Church is making passionate and radical followers of Jesus Christ.... When a House Church gets to the point of expansion, new leaders need to step forward and begin to lead their own House Church, breaking off from the original."

Amen and Amen. This is the idea. Unfortunately, as human beings we get excited by success, by bigger numbers.

Also, I think it can be hard to trust God to work in someone who seems less gifted or less qualified to lead, and let them begin a house church in their home. People with passion for the work usually have strong convictions regarding how to do it.

In my life, when I have been the most passionate, I have also been the most stubborn and unyielding--not "easy to be entreated" as we are exhorted to be.

"For an overseer, as God's manager, must be blameless, not arrogant, not quick tempered,...not a bully." (Titus 1:7)

When I think back on how arrogant and quick-tempered I used to be (can still be?!), and occasionally a bully, I cringe!

 2010/7/28 1:19





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