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lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
Sweden

 Aspects of the Prophetic Office



Aspects of the Prophetic Office - The Seer
By Lars Widerberg

Long ago, prophets were called seers, 1 Sam 9:9. The prophetic dimension is by no means ruled by laws of evolution and change, by laws of coincidence and impermanence. The prophetic office includes the activity of a seer. The change of title indicates by no means any change of function or objectives. Rather, the linking of the two titles builds a bridge between different aspects of the office and broadens the definition. It constitutes continuation and duration.

A prophet is a seer, which implies that the basic nature of his commission is characterised by observation and watchfulness. There is no element, no connotations of spiritistic character in the Hebrew concept. There is no element of fortune-telling implied. Shamanistic connotations may not be added. Shamanistic methods and techniques belong to another, entirely different kingdom. Trance states and altered states of consciousness belong to the realm of magic and is a sign of the flesh in charge and in operation.

The practices of the diviner are, and have to be, sharply renounced and rebuked by a true seer. Prediction for the sake of establishing a track record, for the sake of seeming to be able to know and to have been divinely commissioned, is no valid evidence of the prophetic. Predictions do not substantiate claims of representing Heaven.


_________________
Lars Widerberg

 2004/10/22 3:43Profile
lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
Sweden

 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office



The Seer represents the prophetic dimension by means of his ability to observe, by his inclination towards watchfulness. He is a watchman, he is the protector. He walks the narrow paths of the border areas of the Kingdom, drawing strength for this isolated work of defence from the vivid visions and experiences of the heartlands of God’s domains. The prophet’s home is a Mizpah, a watchtower, a place for proper judgment and discernment, 1 Sam 7:6.

The watchfulness itself becomes a prophetic sign and a prophetic force. It does so in an ever increasing measure as we are moving closer and closer to the final stages of our age. ”Be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer”, 1 Pet 4:7. Sober praying is indeed prophetic intercession. Sound judgment is indeed a sign of the prophetic dimension. Sober discernment is the cutting edge of the Church of the end times.
This sequence of time marked by the absence of absolutes encounters a challenge by the Absolute. This terrible time of total alienation will, in and through the prophet, be countered by a revelation of Fatherhood. God, the Father is the absolute protector. The time of moral and emotional subjectivism is to be confronted by sober intercession. This is indeed a stimulating prospect.

The basic attitude and fundamental approach of a seer is expressed in his eagerness to watch and listen, to wait and observe. He is made able to cope with silence. He is made able to keep silent. He is made able to listen and obey. The prophetic dimension brings obedience, Rom 16:26. The seer is a man of the Cornerstone, of proper mental and moral alignment. He is made ready to demand obedience and correction. He waits for proper timing.

Out of necessity the presence and the quality of a prophetically disposed people will develop in our time, the time of apostasy. The general moral condition in our day forces true Christians to react with tears and intercession. The moral enablement, the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is the dynamics of the prophetic dimension. The particular condition in the Church defined by the horrifying word ”Apostasy” cannot but generate an extraordinary pain among the watchmen, driving them to the heart of the Father. Out of necessity the false and the true will grow alongside each other. Only the seer will avoid mixing the two. Only the watchful will succeed and live. Only the sensible and the sober are able to move in the prophetic dimension.


_________________
Lars Widerberg

 2004/10/22 6:48Profile
lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
Sweden

 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office



The seer has learnt to live the Book, the seer has learnt to pray Heaven. He is a man of correspondence and agreement. Things seen must be prayed into existence. ”As in heaven, so on earth”. The things defined in Heaven as rule and standards must be applied on earth. The seer is a man of definitions. Like Ezekiel, any seer is compelled to watchfulness and analysis by the Father’s urging words: ”Do you see, are you able to identify, look what they do”, Ez 8:6-15.

The seer gathers experience, not like any of those with ears itching, not like those who never care to draw conclusions and never learn. Prophets are old men, experienced men, men who have taken time and opportunity to unveil and unmask the glittery and sensual moves and modes of the world without and within the Church. The seer has learnt to stay silent until the proper work of defining and labelling is finished. Prophets wait until they have received a word from the Lord, and they keep on waiting for proper timing. Prophets are men who have seen Heaven, have learnt to pray Heaven, have begun to live Heaven. Such men will be able to speak on behalf of Heaven.

The ministry, the office of a prophet takes learning, it takes the toil of gathering experience, but it does not necessarily require the gift of prophecy. The seer is marked by intellectual capacity and maturity. Spiritual giftings does neither guarantee truth nor constitute maturity. The spiritually gifted Church in Corinth was led to accept individuals as equally gifted, who allowed themselves the strange and dubious luxury of cursing Jesus Christ, 1 Cor 12:3.


_________________
Lars Widerberg

 2004/10/22 11:02Profile
formidable
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Joined: 2004/7/3
Posts: 77
Perth, Australia

 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office

i actaully just finished reading this book"the seer by jim goll" it cleared a few things up & put a lot in perspective in how my walk has been shaped. here is an excert from it

THE SEER AND THE PROPHET: SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES
- A Study Guide Outline by Jim W. Goll

I. DEFINING OUR TERMS

A. Three Hebrew Words

The word "prophet" is used 300 times in the Old Testament and 100 times in the New Testament.

1. Nahbi
(naw-bee) is translated prophet. a. Young - "the function of a Nahbi was to speak a message on behalf of a superior. In the case of Aaron, this superior was Moses, although ultimately, of course, it was God.



As far as the prophets were concerned, the superior was God Himself. It was He with whom the word to be spoken originated.



He placed that word in the mouth of the prophets, and they in turn declared it unto the people...we conclude then, that upon the basis of Old Testament usage, the Nahbi was a speaker who declared the word that God had given him."11 b. Scriptures: i. Dt. 18:18.
ii. Ex. 7:1. iii. Ex. 4:15-16. iv. Jer. 1:5,9.



Numb 11:29 (NIV) But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!"

2. Ro'eh
(raw-aw) and hozeh (khaw-zah) or chozeh is translated "seer". a.Young - "The word Nahbi stresses the active work of the prophet, in speaking forth the message from God. The word Raw-aw on the other hand, brings to the fore the experience by means of which the prophet was made to "see" that message. One word lays the emphasis upon the prophet's relation to the people; the other upon his relation to God."

12 b. Hengsteuberg - "These were not so much chronological historians so much as describers of pictures."

13 c. Scriptures: i. I Sam. 9:9. ii. II Chr. 29:30 - Asaph. iii. II Sam. 24:11 - Gad.iv. II Sam. 7:2 - Nathan.



2Kin 17:13 (NIV) The LORD warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and seers: "Turn from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees, in accordance with the entire Law that I commanded your fathers to obey and that I delivered to you through my servants the prophets."

3. General Conclusion:

a. Prophecy is God communicating His will by word (sometimes by action) through chosen persons. It includes whatever God desires to say about past, present, and future. Some have inclined to confine it to the future, but this is inaccurate.

The prophet was, and is, a forth teller as well as a foreteller.

Indeed, he speaks whatever God wants said!

b. The "Seer" is the receptive dimension and the "Prophet" is the communicative dimension.


B. Words Describing How the Prophetic Comes

1. Nataf - This means "to let drop like rain." It comes upon us little by little and is accumulated in our buckets over a period of time.



Ezek 20:46 (NIV) "Son of man, set your face toward the south; preach against the south and prophesy against the forest of the southland.



2. Massa - This is used to refer to the "hand of the Lord" that releases the "burden of the Lord." When God's hand comes upon us, it imparts something to us. When His hand lifts His burden remains.



Deut 1:11 (NIV) May the LORD, the God of your fathers, increase you a thousand times and bless you as he has promised! 12 But how can I bear your problems and your burdens and your disputes all by myself? 13 Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you."



Prov 31:1 (NIV)

The sayings of King Lemuel--an oracle or burden his mother taught him:



Isai 13:1 (NIV) An oracle/burden concerning Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:



3. Nahbi - This word refers to the action of "flowing forth." It also carries with it the thought "to bubble forth like a fountain, to let drop, to lift up, to tumble forth, and to spring forth."



4. Propheteia - This New Testament Greek word means "speaking forth the mind and the counsel of God." It simply means "to speak for another."



Roma 12:6 (NIV) We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.


C. Levels and Terms of "Seeing"

1. Visual - Insights, revelations, warnings, and prophecies from the Spirit of God may come in supernatural visual dreams.



Herein one sees God's revelation while his spirit simply observes and receives the
message.



One might even see the heavens opened, as Ezekiel did (in Ezekiel 1:1), even though he's asleep. In an open heaven type of a vision, the higher ethers (celestial realms) are disclosed, and views, patterns, and heavenly sights of God become seeable.



2. Actual - Supernatural actual dreams are those in which God's tangible presence is evident. To see the Lord in a dream is visual, but for the Lord to manifest Himself to you in a dream is actual.

II. SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES OF THE STREAMS

A. The Prophet - Nahbi

1. Often uses plurality of eldership or seasoned, gifted individuals (men and women) with the "laying on of hands" to minister.

2. Will utilize giftings of tongues and interpretation of tongues.

3. Spontaneous, faster flow with inspiration being the tone.

4. Often "hears" and repeats as spoken to.

5. Steps out to prophesy according to his portion of faith.

6. The prophetic presbytery is a common approach.

B. The Seer - Ro'eh

1. Tends to be more single in ministry versus the plurality of a team.

2. Emphasizes visions and the revelatory gifts versus the audible, speaking gifts.

3. Often operates at a slower pace due to describing pictures in their own words.

4. Is dependent upon the angelic and the manifested presence of God.

5. These prophetic vessels appear to have limitations until they sense the anointing.

6. Often gets information ahead of time and tells it later.

III. CONCLUSION

The purpose of both the Prophet and the Seer is to reveal the glorious wonders of Jesus Christ, God's purpose in a ,generation, eternity, heaven and hell, and the Father's great presence.

Pray for your eyes to be opened. According to Eph. 1:17-19
and II Ki. 6:17a - O Lord...open his eyes that he (the servant) may see...


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scot

 2004/10/22 12:52Profile
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office

I respect you guys---you folks have more knowledge than I can ever hope to have , however you need to understand that prophets are frail human beings note 1KI 13 the story here of 2 prophets--one blind(he lost all his discernment)the other becomes disobedient.The blind prophet lies then God turns around and uses him---maybe the gifts and calling of God are without repentance---Then theres Elijah who was a man-----MAN---just like us and was subject to the same weaknesses.God's not interested in prophets per se' He's looking for willing vessels----servants, who He can use in this the midnight hour.REV 19:9-10 It's all God It's all by His Grace Go ye therefore and.......Let Jesus fill in the blanks.


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D.Miller

 2004/10/22 13:12Profile
lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
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 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office



This thread – Aspects of the Prophetic Office – will at this point hold six articles.
As we go along, some remarks and statements will be delivered as to helping understanding the prophetic realm.
To help in the process of reading and understanding, the mind aiming at maturity will listen to hear the writer. After listening, follows meditation and thinking. As a third step follows interaction, questions, comments, discussion and perhaps disagreement. Interrupting a speaker is somewhat impolite; to talk while someone else is talking is somewhat unlearned.
If you are eager to discuss the subject, please start another tread.
Let us begin from the beginning.
Lars W.


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Lars Widerberg

 2004/10/22 13:44Profile
lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
Sweden

 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office



Aspects of the Prophetic Office - The Seer
By Lars Widerberg

Long ago, prophets were called seers, 1 Sam 9:9. The prophetic dimension is by no means ruled by laws of evolution and change, by laws of coincidence and impermanence. The prophetic office includes the activity of a seer. The change of title indicates by no means any change of function or objectives. Rather, the linking of the two titles builds a bridge between different aspects of the office and broadens the definition. It constitutes continuation and duration.

A prophet is a seer, which implies that the basic nature of his commission is characterised by observation and watchfulness. There is no element, no connotations of spiritistic character in the Hebrew concept. There is no element of fortune-telling implied. Shamanistic connotations may not be added. Shamanistic methods and techniques belong to another, entirely different kingdom. Trance states and altered states of consciousness belong to the realm of magic and is a sign of the flesh in charge and in operation.

The practices of the diviner are, and have to be, sharply renounced and rebuked by a true seer. Prediction for the sake of establishing a track record, for the sake of seeming to be able to know and to have been divinely commissioned, is no valid evidence of the prophetic. Predictions do not substantiate claims of representing Heaven.

The Seer represents the prophetic dimension by means of his ability to observe, by his inclination towards watchfulness. He is a watchman, he is the protector. He walks the narrow paths of the border areas of the Kingdom, drawing strength for this isolated work of defence from the vivid visions and experiences of the heartlands of God’s domains. The prophet’s home is a Mizpah, a watchtower, a place for proper judgment and discernment, 1 Sam 7:6.

The watchfulness itself becomes a prophetic sign and a prophetic force. It does so in an ever increasing measure as we are moving closer and closer to the final stages of our age. ”Be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer”, 1 Pet 4:7. Sober praying is indeed prophetic intercession. Sound judgment is indeed a sign of the prophetic dimension. Sober discernment is the cutting edge of the Church of the end times.
This sequence of time marked by the absence of absolutes encounters a challenge by the Absolute. This terrible time of total alienation will, in and through the prophet, be countered by a revelation of Fatherhood. God, the Father is the absolute protector. The time of moral and emotional subjectivism is to be confronted by sober intercession. This is indeed a stimulating prospect.

The basic attitude and fundamental approach of a seer is expressed in his eagerness to watch and listen, to wait and observe. He is made able to cope with silence. He is made able to keep silent. He is made able to listen and obey. The prophetic dimension brings obedience, Rom 16:26. The seer is a man of the Cornerstone, of proper mental and moral alignment. He is made ready to demand obedience and correction. He waits for proper timing.

Out of necessity the presence and the quality of a prophetically disposed people will develop in our time, the time of apostasy. The general moral condition in our day forces true Christians to react with tears and intercession. The moral enablement, the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is the dynamics of the prophetic dimension. The particular condition in the Church defined by the horrifying word ”Apostasy” cannot but generate an extraordinary pain among the watchmen, driving them to the heart of the Father. Out of necessity the false and the true will grow alongside each other. Only the seer will avoid mixing the two. Only the watchful will succeed and live. Only the sensible and the sober are able to move in the prophetic dimension.

The seer has learnt to live the Book, the seer has learnt to pray Heaven. He is a man of correspondence and agreement. Things seen must be prayed into existence. ”As in heaven, so on earth”. The things defined in Heaven as rule and standards must be applied on earth. The seer is a man of definitions. Like Ezekiel, any seer is compelled to watchfulness and analysis by the Father’s urging words: ”Do you see, are you able to identify, look what they do”, Ez 8:6-15.

The seer gathers experience, not like any of those with ears itching, not like those who never care to draw conclusions and never learn. Prophets are old men, experienced men, men who have taken time and opportunity to unveil and unmask the glittery and sensual moves and modes of the world without and within the Church. The seer has learnt to stay silent until the proper work of defining and labelling is finished. Prophets wait until they have received a word from the Lord, and they keep on waiting for proper timing. Prophets are men who have seen Heaven, have learnt to pray Heaven, have begun to live Heaven. Such men will be able to speak on behalf of Heaven.

The ministry, the office of a prophet takes learning, it takes the toil of gathering experience, but it does not necessarily require the gift of prophecy. The seer is marked by intellectual capacity and maturity. Spiritual giftings does neither guarantee truth nor constitute maturity. The spiritually gifted Church in Corinth was led to accept individuals as equally gifted, who allowed themselves the strange and dubious luxury of cursing Jesus Christ, 1 Cor 12:3.


_________________
Lars Widerberg

 2004/10/22 13:45Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
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 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office



The prophetic office is given to the Church for the sake spiritual maturity as well as intellectual and moral integrity, 1 Cor 14:28. Dividing the two elements – the spiritual and the intellectual/moral – is in it self a sure sign of the operation of the forces of apostasy. The operation of the gifts of the Spirit and Christian character produced by the Holy Spirit is but the two sides of a coin. The glorious grace shown by God through the operation of the gifts leads to full and total submission to the law of the grain of wheat, John 12:24.

Watchmen are men able to give answers as Heaven answers. ”Watchman, how far gone is the night?”, Isaiah 21:11. What time is it, what kind of time is it? Watchmen serve their time and their church by understanding and defining the mentality of contemporary phenomenon. The prophet is a man of foundations, able to analyse the results of a common trend in society by looking at its roots. He is skilled in the art of deduction, interpretation and discernment. He, himself becomes a force against the mentality of the time and he offers understanding of how to avoid the influence of its atmosphere. This imminent force of separation and purity is the prophetic dimension.

Seers are men of revelation. Seers are men of enlightenment. Seers are men of intellectual maturity. The Father speaks to hearts for the sake of increased knowledge, The Father reveals himself to the inner man for the sake of mobilisation of discernment and for proper decision-making. The seer sees as the Father sees and corrects and instructs accordingly.


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Lars Widerberg

 2004/10/22 13:46Profile
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 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office



The prophetic dimension is marked by submission and obedience. The prophetic climate produces obedience. Where there is no vision, the people are unrestrained, Prov. 29:18. Where there is no seer, there is no discipline. Where the people are unruly, where the people hail subjectivism and the sensational, the cursing of Jesus Christ is not far from entering in. Where the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of prophecy is not welcome, one will not easily find any respect for the word of God, for order and heavenly protocol.

The seer is made able to read the spiritual climate. He is made able to identify the prevalent motivational force. His role is to see through masks and veils of pretension, to expose man’s folly and evil, for the sake of seeing the poor and needy through. The watchman is set over men’s hearts to discern motivation, and to pray for and to call forth correction. The seer is set over men’s hearts to call them to heavenly living.

The prophet is a seer. The basic nature of his commission is observation and watchfulness. He is prone to contemplation and skilled in the art of deduction. He is certainly not of a passive nature. As the time draws to its conclusion by increasing its malicious efforts, his words, definitions and prophetic statements develop in exactitude and veracity. As the society draws close to its final cursing of Christ, the seer turns even more definitely away from fantasy and the fantastic and sensational. He will focus all his energy and capability to bring the people back to the Lord, back to the Book, back to Holiness and back to prayer.


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Lars Widerberg

 2004/10/22 18:00Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
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 Re: Aspects of the Prophetic Office



Aspects of the Prophetic Office - Fatherhood
By Lars Widerberg

And Elijah went up by a windstorm to heaven. And Elisha saw it and cried out: ”My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen.” 2 Kings 2:11-12.
Prophets sent by God are sent forth into the world, heavenly commissioned to represent and reflect the fatherheart of God. A prophet’s mandate lies in his willingness and eagerness to reflect and personify the fatherhood of God Almighty. Prophetic ministry stands for the principle of fatherhood. Prophets personify the identity of the God they serve.
Prophets, their stature and dignity, is recognised by the peculiar people which is marked by a desire for true spiritual growth. The twice-born are made able to discern the shepherd’s voice and to reject any counterfeit. Growth unto maturity, becoming a man, is by all means a matter of fatherhood.
Elisha was taught the most difficult lesson on earth to be learned, trusting the future into the hands of the only true Father amidst the loss of the object of identification -an earthly father. The mixed and doubleminded multitude of vanity prophets are never able to produce the fruit of true fatherhood, which is hope for the future, through their voluminous and at times deceptively accurate predictions and forecasts.


_________________
Lars Widerberg

 2004/10/23 4:10Profile





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