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"I see also, how responses such as the one from scottish warrior (don't remember your name there) who refer to the sermon on the mount type of spiritual life - which indeed I completely agree with - and others who chime in the same way, and yet do not seem to deny or accept sanctification experiences, baptism, tongues and so forth"
Hey brother, just saw your reply to this subject. In my own response to this subject, I deliberatly did not mentinon any of the sign gifts because in my opinion, if your not living the " sermon on the mount," teachings by Jesus, or moving in that direction by the process of sanctification, then, basicaly, " so what." Its kinda like 1Cor 13 where we are told that you can have all these things, you can even give your body to be burned, but if you dont have love then what have you gained? Its the burning heart of Jesus beating at the center of who we are that even makes the sermon on the mount teachings a possiblity. If anyone wants to test themselves, it should be against this measure, the measure of the heart of Christ that we should test ourselves, not by the sign gifts. I write this as one who has the gift of tongues. I write this as one who has had a " second experience."
I personally see the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as a vital part of Christianity without which the life of Christ cannot be lived out. Yet, the fruit of this Baptism will be the burning heart of Christ beating in believers and seen in their sanctification. If we are not becoming more like Jesus as we progress in our walk then we have to look criticaly at our walk and see where we are. The questions for me would be " Is Jesus your grand obsession?" And , " Can you say , I have no King but Jesus?" ........brother Frank
| 2010/10/25 9:57|
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I personally see the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as a vital part of Christianity without which the life of Christ cannot be lived out. Yet, the fruit of this Baptism will be the burning heart of Christ beating in believers and seen in their sanctification. If we are not becoming more like Jesus as we progress in our walk then we have to look criticaly at our walk and see where we are. The questions for me would be " Is Jesus your grand obsession?" And , " Can you say , I have no King but Jesus?"
You are going to the core of the matter -- Christ --- and not just the exaltation of an experience or blessing which can be real and authentic but can be lost and we rely on feelings and not on the Word of God our Rock.
I think that the parable of the Vine is a good illustrtion of what it means to have a personal intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, our source of life and sanctification.
I just want to emphasize that after we are born again we receive the Holy Spirit who comes to indwell in us and to sanctify us as we keep an intimate relationship with Jesus.
It is the same Spirit that can empower us for service, it is the work of the Spirit to anoint us and give us power to witness.
Termes sometimes can confuse us, christians from different denominations describe the Holy Ghost power or baptism in different terms and words but the result is the same: they are filled with Holy Ghost and have power for service and their life has been completely trasformed by Christ.
Paul prayed for the believers who were baptised wih the Holy Spirit that Christ may be formed in them. This is a process to be more and more like Christ in our character and in takes time and a constant dying to self that Christ may live in us. There is nowhere in the letters of the apostles, any specific instructions about initial evidences of the Holy Ghost baptism. To be honest, even the theological term of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost after regeneration is not substantially supported in the New Testament. I dont mean its not possible, but im not sure it's theologically correct to use the term to refer to a post conversion(born again) experience.
I have always been sure of one thing, that many godly men mightly used by God to bring many to Christ had a post conversion experience of the infilling of the Holy Spirit that changed their lives for better.
"If you abide in Me and I abide in you, you shall bare much fruit".....the secret of a fruitful ministry.
The branch can do nothing without the Vine. Jesus in me,ruling as King at the center of my heart/soul.
No personal pentecost without the experience of the cross, no power without purity of heart. The person filled with the Spirit is he who has died to self to live for Christ. We have to much talk about the power of the Holy Spirit but very little about the message of the cross and purity of heart and life. The two are indispensable but unfortunatly there is no balance between the cross and pentecost, or purity and power.
| 2010/10/25 11:12||Profile|
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But the question is not "What is the sign that one has received the Holy Spirit", rather, "What is the sign that one has received the Holy Spirit".
lol, that sounds weird I know, but it isn't. It really is just that. The question is not what is the 'long term' results of one being filled with the Holy Ghost, but what is the immediate reaction that follow after one has JUST received the Spirit?
This is the question I believe the original threader intended.
In the long term, yes indeed, it's love, fruit, holiness, good works etc.. And these are the more weightier virtues than any gift, but lets not negate the gifts, or then we will be an unbalanced body.
| 2010/10/25 12:16|
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Snufalagapus (can I call you Snuf?) asks
"but what is the immediate reaction that follow after one has JUST received the Spirit?"
Can I testify what my initial experience was. I received faith from God. I discovered faith within me, and found that I could believe God, that I did believe Him.
Before that, I was trying so hard to be a christian. Trying to be like the other christians in the church, who had something wonderful. I worshipped like them, I sang like them, I prophesied and preached in the church, and God had given me the gift of tongues.
But I did not know God or Jesus Christ personally, and without anyone in the church knowing, I was living in terrible sin.
God separated me from the church and my family and brought me to France where there are no christians for hundreds of miles around that I know of. Then He started drawing me to himself, showed me the awefulness of my sin in His sight, showed me Jesus, His son, the only one acceptable to Him. I said Yes to Him, and I found mysef in Christ. Faith had come, I was a child of God.
"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" Gal 3:23-27
| 2010/10/25 20:04||Profile|
Panama City, FL
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Does anyone know evan robert's testimony?
| 2011/2/3 11:09||Profile|
| Re: |
How could anyone know that the Spirit of Christ has been born again in them? We cannot see it, we don't feel it, it is what happened at Pentecost but no one knew it. That is why Paul was chosen by God to bring this mystery to light. John said it plainly, He who comes will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. If We have Christ in us, He has baptized us into the Holy Spirit. Salvation by Christ in you the Hope of Glory sent by the Incorruptable Seed of the Father. Now that we have the Spirit of Christ in us, and He has baptized us into the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit can do the work Christ sent Him to do. The Holy Spirit will convict us of sin, show us the Christ in us, show us the Father by the Christ in us and begin the process of sanctification and Justification by wisdom and redemption.
John 14, 15,16, 17 all tell us what the Holy Spirit as Another Comforter will accomplish in our lives. Our primary Comforter is Christ in us the Hope of Glory, the Power to know this truth comes from the "Another Comforter".
How it is manifested or comes forth in the believer is not the litmus for receiving our salvation which has all these attributes in it, but by Faith we believe it and that Faith is the true manifestation and the only true test that cannot be counterfeited of receiving the wonderful gifts of the Spirit of Christ birthed in us and the Holy Spirit now Baptized in us and not just with us.
This is that Faith which has come; Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
1 Corinthians 12:12-14 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2011/2/3 13:52||Profile|