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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Baptism in the Holy Spirit: The Evidence

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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: Just one more thing!!!



I'd like to add one more thing! I know what God has done in my life even while I was yet living like a sinner and speaking in tongues, He didn't condemn me. I do not believe that I am any more special than anyone else, so could it be that He has baptised others in His Holy Spirit and given them the gift of tongues as well?

I was baptised in the Holy Spirit when I was 19 and yes, I spoke in tongues and on and off I lived a life similiar somewhat to what Matt said he lived. When I was forty the perfect storm happened and I backslid for a few years.

I don't know for sure but it seems that God does not look at how perfect or holy a person IS LIVING at that particular time in history and even how holy they are going to stay!!! But rather looks at their heart.

After I returned to the Lord, I went down a list and checked off everything I did wrong, lived wrong, said wrong and asked Him why He gave me the Holy Ghost and I got that verse, "When you ask your Father for a fish, He doesn't give you a stone," and that He didn't regret it because the "gifts of God are without repentance."

It's the goodness of God that leads us to repentance! When we know that we know He loves us beyond measure and that He was good to us in spite of us being us! He is a good God, people!!


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Lisa

 2010/7/16 7:14Profile
TimmyJoe
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Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

Lysa said,

Quote:
And we CANNOT blame these people or churches, that's God's job. All we can do is lovingly educate and let them know what God has done for us!



Amen! I agree with you, because I have grown up in A/G and Pentecostal churches all my life, and tongues being the evidence was all I ever heard. It's the same thing for many Pentecostals today, especially young preachers; that's what their daddy believed and preached, and that's what his daddy believed and preached so they preach it too.

The problem comes when they make comments like,"if you ain't talked in tongues this week you need to be in this altar!!" Not being concerned with being full of love for their neighbors and enemies or power to witness. Just with if they've spoke in tongues or not.

I know thats not always the case, but like the Corinthian church, we need some men of God to lovingly educate us. To turn our attention from signs and wonders to being conformed to the image of Christ (inside and out).

Pray that God would open all our eyes, so that in our understanding we would be as men!

 2010/7/16 17:57Profile
mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

I appreciate those thoughts Lisa and I agree however in my case I can most ashuredly say I wasn't Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Something that I have seen happen especially in big churches is that they will have the big bands, high energy, charimatic preacher stir the emotions of the people and people come to be baptised in the Holy Spirit because of the emotional atmosphere rather than having a conviction of wanting to be baptised.


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/7/16 19:08Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: The Baptism in the Holy Spirit: Matthew


Matthew,

Even though I went to a pentecostal type church, I did not grow up in a church like you described, so forgive me!!

What you wrote reminded me of visiting a church like that years ago (11). I went on a Sunday night and it was great, everything you said... the high energy, the big band and choir and people dancing then I went back the very next Sunday night and it was the exact same high energy music, exact same songs, the exact same people dancing in the aisles and warning bells started going off in my head and I heard the Spirit say, "Pavlov's dogs."

For those who may not know, Ivan Pavlov was a scientist who stumbled upon something with his dogs that you describe, Matt ... Pavlov had food and dogs and he wanted to see when the built in reflex for salivating for food kicked in. He would ring a bell, then show the dog the food and after so many times of practice, he found out that he could just ring the bell without producing any food and the dogs would salivate.

But this is what happens when man depends upon himself instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to lead and being willing to follow.

God bless,

Lisa


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Lisa

 2010/7/16 22:29Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: TimmyJoe


TimmyJoe,

You are right, the saying, "if you ain't talked in tongues this week you need to be in this altar!" is sad, very sad.

I do know and believe that if there are not any men of God available to educate you, the Holy Ghost is ready, willing and able to the educating!! (huge grin)

Quote:
To turn our attention from signs and wonders to being conformed to the image of Christ (inside and out).



I read this and was reminded that it was the LORD who confirmed the word the disciples preached with "signs following!!" It wasn't the disciples, it says that in two or three places explicitly, "the Lord confirmed" (my paraphrase!). We are to obey and be conformed and maybe HE will confirm!! (lol)

God bless you,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2010/7/16 22:34Profile
bro_willy
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Joined: 2010/7/20
Posts: 29


 Re:

very interesting article! It makes me think!

 2010/7/20 17:54Profile









 Re:

Re; Speaking in tongues; St. Paul says and I quote; "Do all speak with tongues?" (1 Cor.12:30) Follwing the context on 1 Cor. Chapter 12, as each question is asked...the answer is NO! One body. many members, and many gifts... not all the same. Each believer is "baptized" into the body of Christ by the Holy Ghost (John 1:33/Matt. 4:1,12) By The Way, the baptism with fire is for those that are not baptized with the Spirit! Have no fear, the new birth allows entrance into Christ's Kingdom(Only one/Col/1:13) Your are translated into the kingdom! It is the best "translation, it is immediate...like Star Trek...."Beam me up Scotty." Just like that, not a process. On the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:41-47) The Holy Ghost added "daily such as should be saved." The Holy Spirit of God then seals you "unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 1:30/4:30) It is called "the operation of God" in Col. 2:11-14 and it is the circumcision made without hands and the baptism is not Water Baptism...as it says in Eph.4:1-6 there is only "one baptism." If you can relate to it; The temple of God is your body, the baptism and the circumcision are spiritual and one of the many "evidences" of salvatiion is a love of His word, loving the Brethren, getting souls saved and #1 giving God the "glory" (Bear much fruit/John 15:8) If you have you have questions I will try to help.
I struggled with my assurance of salvation til Romans 5:6 struck me; "Christ died for the ungodly." So if you understand me correctly, my question is twofold; Are you baptized in the spirit and are you washed in His Blood? (Rev.1:5) Tractsman

 2010/7/22 15:21
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:


Tractsman said,

Quote:
By The Way, the baptism with fire is for those that are not baptized with the Spirit!



I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by this statement. If you could please explain i would appreciate it.

 2010/7/26 17:35Profile
RainMan
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Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

The evidence for me would be fruits of the Spirit not the Gifts. Like many i grew up with the "Come to the front if you want to receive the holy spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues" doctrine (Now i realise how strange that is).

But the question i would ask is why many nowadays who profess to have these fruits lack the gifts. I am not a cessationalist and am yet to meet one you can scripturally prove to me the ministration of the holy spirit has ended. Has the Holy Spirit stopped equipping the Church for ministry? What i struggle to understand is the absence of these best gifts from the corporate body. We have drawn a big imaginary line between gifts and fruits. Some of my former strange folk churches stand on the side of gifts others on fruits. But pauls exhortaion is and advocation of spiritual maturity (fruits) in the expression of manifested gifts. The Holy Spirit may gives gifts to the church to empower us to spread the gospel and to help build ourselves up in Christ. The two go hand in hand and are both needed for fruitful ministry.

I man came up to me with his son a few years ago. I was in a real bad state spiritually at the time but was attending a pentecostal church. He said to me "son i was just telling my boy you are christian arent you?" then he said "Just wanted you to know that there was a calling on your life". The man was clearly operating prophetically but as the years unfolded you have know idea how encouraging those words were. I would be in the darkest places in my life and wonder if God could possibly love me (and you) so much that he would go out of his way to tell me so. As much as the devil condemned me i would always remember that random man that walked up to me from nowhere to say thus saith the lord. I dont know what denomination this guy was from but i know in our brief conversation its was him yeilding to his gifts that allowed him to come up and speak to me with words that would change my life forever. He put himself on the spot with his son present to say thus saith the lord, he stepped out in faith and new it wasnt his imagination speaking to him.

His gift brought edification to me. His words were seeds sown that helped shape me.




Where the Spirit is there is power=dunamis. Power to change from our sinful nature and be transformed to the image of Christ(fruits) and Power to effectively witness to the world and to each other(gifts). so for me the evidence is both because if only one is present these days it points to demonically inspired charismania or human effort to be like Christ not powered by the Spirit (Should a Holy Ghost filled church have a higher divorce rate than the Buddhists. Does Buddha have more practical instruction for a happy matrimony than Christ? Whats wrong who stole all our joy? We dont suffer as much as the early church but they had more joy than us, why?)

 2010/7/29 13:03Profile
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

Quote:
But the question i would ask is why many nowadays who profess to have these fruits lack the gifts.



That's a good question rainman! I believe a person has to desire to have spiritual gifts if God is going to give them to them (obviously not in all cases though). But He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him, and I believe so many don't seek spiritual gifts because they are afraid of what they have seen in so called "spirit-filled" churches (abuse of tongues, false prophecy, strange manifestations, etc...). But I do believe we should desire and earnestly seek these gifts for ministry today!

"Every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation (change)" (James. 1:17).

O that we would strive to see the fruits of the Holy Spirit in our life and earnestly seek these wonderful gifts that Christ has provided for His church!

 2010/7/30 17:38Profile





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