| Re: The Heart of It|
Hi guys and gals,
Perhaps the heart of it has to deal with amusement and worshipping of idols. I don't think it is just me but the comments of my friends on Facebook about the World Cup specifically, and sports in general, show another spirit at work. Pride, arrogance and accusation seem to be all over the place. What does that have to do with God's people? Ought not these things even to be mentioned among us? Peraps this meeting to watch the World Cup merely revealed what is in these people's hearts. Something with repurcussions but no direct evidence. Prayerfully consider this.
| 2010/6/24 11:20||Profile|
| Re: |
What I have found in most Christians, is that, you can't talk about God with them.
During the service, there is of course, the praise, worship, prayer, sermon etc.
Before and after the service, there is no mention of God, His word, the sermon they just heard.
They talk about the movies they have seen, the holidays they have planned, this, that and the other.
It seems alien to talk about God.
It all over for this service. No more talk about God until the next service, whenever that will be.
So football or parties etc after a service is quite the norm now. Msybe even God approves and rejoices in this.
So, like I said, I'm wrong.
| 2010/6/24 11:43||Profile|
| Re: |
Like I said, if the Lord is convicting you of this, it is not my place to say if it is right or wrong at your church.
I agree with what you write about no talk of the Lord until the next service. The Lord does NOT rejoice in this.
Blessings my friend.
| 2010/6/24 11:56||Profile|
| Re: |
Before and after the service, there is no mention of God, His work, the sermon they just heard. They talk about the movies they have seen, the holidays they have planned, this, that, and the other. It seems alien to talk about God.
This is something that has bothered me for some time. Even if a powerful message was preached, usually the moment the last word of the benediction is uttered, talk resumes about sports, weather, anything but what the sermon was about, how we were convicted or how we can apply that to our lives or how we were convicted.
I guess I'm guilty of letting others set the tone for the conversation, though.....and worse yet, sometimes I'm the one that immediately switches to the temporal things......
Lori Jean Mooney
| 2010/6/24 12:14||Profile|
| Re: |
Uhmm... for those of us who meet in homes and not in overly expensive buildings... where does this leave us? Many times we meet together on Sunday mornings, break bread together... and fellowship all afternoon with the football game on. Why is that elaborate building down the street so special?
Jesus said Himself that soon men would no longer worship God in temples made of wood and stone... but rather they would worship Him in spirit and in truth.
That would be us, folks. Or at least it's supposed to be.
C'mon folks, get over your religiosity. In my career I've assisted in the construction of many churches. Trust me, they are nothing but wood, steel and concrete. And in most cases a waste of money. The last church construction project I was involved in was for a $4.5M building. It's not like we are lacking for church buildings here where I live... there is a church every 20 feet. How many missionaries would that $4.5M support?? Instead it gets spent on some building that will be torn down 100 years from now so someone can build something else on top of it.
(Altho I am forever grateful for the tithers in that church that helped put food on my table by building that monstrosity!)
Now let me clarify... I hear what you are saying about "christians" who worship God and then forget about Him until the next service. Dare I say... they probably are not Christians. More likely they are goats, and that is a whole different problem.
But "church buildings" are no more holy than Walmart.
I remember as a little kid on those rare occasions when my grandma took me to church being told "Don't run in God's house!"
I've since learned how to study my Bible... and I found out something: It's not God's house!
| 2010/6/24 13:02|
| Re: Is this ok?|
Think I have to come down with Jimp on this one. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. When we assemble in a building to worship the Lord, the temples of God are entering an edifice made of wood, brick, stone, or whatever. The physical building is not sacred. We, the living temple of the Holy Spirit are. Is it any different to watch the World Cup in the "church building" after an anointed service than it is to go to another "building" that I call my house to watch the same game? How often do we allow things in our home that we would be offended at if it occurred in the "church" building?
I was brought up to reverence the building as well, and have come to realize that this is misplaced reverence. Why would I ever allow something in my life outside the four walls of the church building that I would never allow to come inside the church building.
Now I do believe that it is good to dedicate the building to a particular purpose as it often helps put us in a frame of mind to accomplish that purpose when we enter. But this is practical and a bit psychological rather than spiritual. The holiness of the old testament temple is a picture of how we should view the new testament temple, our bodies. Just as nothing unclean or common was allowed in the physical temple in the OT, we should not allow unclean things in our own lives as the living temples of the Holy Spirit.
So, if the World Cup is wrong in the context of the "church building", why are we watching it outside of that context. And if nothing is wrong with it outside of the four walls of the church building, then should it bother us to have it inside the four walls? I ask the question not out of contention, but rather because this is a question I have pondered over the past few years in relationship to the super bowl. My bone of contention was that we rearranged and cut short time in God's presence so we could hurry up and get on with the Super Bowl Party.
Just some thoughts
| 2010/6/24 18:41||Profile|
| Re: |
I agree that nothing should cut short the time we are spending with the Lord, unless it is something that cannot be helped (i.e. sickness, poopy diaper, etc... :-) If we are cutting short our time with the Lord because of a game, then the heart is not right. I cannot tell you how many times we have missed the first half of the Packers because we have been fellowshipping in the church building... And if you know Packer fans, you know that is a BIG deal. lol.
| 2010/6/24 19:09||Profile|
| Re: |
This is so true Lorijean I quess it must be happening in all churches. My husband and I picked up on this shortly after we were born again 3 years ago. As we were maturing in Christ we were becoming convicted of meeting in the coffee room after the service ended and there was no talk of the message or very little, just a time to drink coffee laugh and enjoy ourselves. My husband and I stopped going to the coffee shop and started going home to read the bible more to talk about the sermon and to pray.
It's refreshing to know others feel the same way and it's always good to admit our sinfulness to repent and to move into the direction of Christ.
| 2010/6/24 19:48||Profile|
| Re: Is this ok?|
PLAIN AND SIMPLE
If a building has been dedicated to God, them the building itself is 'set apart' (aka:sanctified) toward God's purpose. To use any building so dedicated is treading on that which is Holy (aka: distinctly different and untainted).
If not dedicated as God's, does it really matter?
Well, when we turn our attention to other things aside from what has been brought to light, what was revealed is thrown to the wayside.
This is moreso true with the revelation of our Word of God from scripture.
Recall the parable of the sower and the types of ground???
Watching a soccer game after the service is a living example of 'the lust of/for other things coming in and choking the word which was sewn."
There are alot of things that are encompassed in that parable that make God's word of no effect: habits, money concerns, the news, etc.
YES IT IS DEFINITELY WRONG; but, then again, so can be getting in the car after service and: turning on the radio, going to eat a meal, arguing with the spouse about how the sermon applied to them, and they saying it applies to you, the kids distracting you from focus on the message and learning more from God....
Is it sin?
"For him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin, says James. Paul says, "whatsoever is not of faith is sin."
The issue is if it distracts and/or detracts from what Bodylife implications need rooting deep within our heart in (and through) faith(fulness) towards God.
We all fail in this, and it takes unswerving uncompromising dedication so God's message to us is becoming God's message in us.
Sad to say, most gatherings are social clubs moreso than His living and breathing through us. When we get our priorities right, and let the Body of Christ be fixed as first, all the extra (often useless) concerns fall into alignment with the primary objective: to be His eyes, ears, hands, feet, and MOUTH.
AND THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION IS:
Are we occupying our selfs with what God just imparted or something else altogether?
I Cor. 10:31
I Cor. 3:13, 14, 15, 18, 21, 23
How many Lessons and sermons do you remember?
Myself, i only remember clearly what has become an active part of life in the living.
edited: grammar, and ending Q&A added
| 2010/6/24 21:56|
| Re: |
Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
I believe there is a time for everything and we being the church need to be able to separate a spiritual time from carnality.
I realize that people who are involved in house church have to use the same building for their home and they cant open their home 24 hours of the day to people for worshiping the Lord.
But we also must realize that we are to consecrate a time and a place for spiritual worship with other believers and we are not to loose the vitality of that time for our spiritual enrichment.
On the other hand a building set a part and consecrated for spiritual service unto the Lord must also be distinguished from carnal things. I do not believe in idolizing a building but I do believe that when we are worshiping together in the presence of God that it is a holy time and should be treated as such.
At whatever time that a people come together in the name of Jesus in any particular place to participate in worship that we are to reverence God and receive spiritual enrichment. We must not be quick to do something carnal. Something is definitely wrong if we cant wait to do something carnal/worldly over against a spiritual time of worship.
I am no different than any of you concerning things that I like to see or have been interested in over the years but it shouldnt be something that I show more interest in than in a spiritual time with God. I believe that we have enough problems denying ourselves and making sure that we dont spend too much time doing carnal things that would rob us of being more spiritual in the Lord. We definitely dont need to be making more time for it, like right after a time of worship.
We also dont need to be bringing more worldly things into church buildings and participating as the church in these things because we need to be doing these things less and not more. It would even be better if we died to it altogether.
Blessings to all!
| 2010/6/24 22:17||Profile|