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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Whats the context?

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jiyouk
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


 Whats the context?

I have a question that I'm hoping you guys can help me out with
.
I want to know how much of our thinking is actually from the bible and how much of it comes from our culture.
For example in todays christianity we focus a lot on "relationships" or "total accepatance." How God is not a person with strict standards who looks at you with a list of marks you've missed. He is someone who accepts you "just as you are because of the cross" In other words, he loves you. And true love is "unconditional." My question is, when John or any other bible writer talks of the Love of God, would he have ment the same things as we mean now? To what extent has psychology and its focus on "acceptance, identity" and so on have effected our interpretations of the bible and the gospel? I'm thinking that the focus on individualism and an idividuals relationship with everybody else and God might have been much less than it is today (not sure though)

I saw a movie called "Agora" and in the movie, although the movie makes does not like Christians, paints a picture of 400AD Christianity as usuing the truths in the Bible to kill other people. But because at that time period the idea "truth" was so more important than a persons "rights"(as it is today) I'm thinking that it's not so far fetched as I would like it to be.

I think that for every point in history as new ideas develope, christians will have been influenced by them somehow. Does anybody have some good resources to decifer how modernism, post modernism, psychology, enlightment, hellenism, new age, and so on have influenced our views of the Bible?

It seems that nobody actually views the Bible without the lense that the society gives. Everybody has things stored up in the closet, and he or she, when reading the bible, takes them out. If we can see how modern and ancient philosophy and lenses have influenced our view of the gospel and the bible, we could get rid of it easier and see the Bible for what it is.

Just a thought thats been bothering me a little.
Hope many of you elders help me out.
Thanks.

 2010/6/24 2:17Profile
Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: Whats the context?

I believe there is a vast amount of modernism injected into what we call christianity today. I would suggest you read any of Art Katz' books. You can find them at:

http://artkatzministries.org/online_bookstore/

But especially read these three:

The Spirit of Truth

The Anatomy of Deception

Apostolic Foundations

Betwee the three of these you should find some solid biblical answers. Many of Art's messages are available on sermonindes as well.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Dig in and find out for yourself. He will lead you.


_________________
KLC

 2010/6/24 9:50Profile









 Re: Whats the context?

It any man would live the bible, he would be a genuine Pharisee, for it cannot be done. The only one who was able to was Christ and though He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, He was not sinful and He was not a sinner.

The love of God is not a wishy washy limp wristed type love. His love is tough, with tender mercies, genuine care, and a tremendous amount of long suffering.

There is a measure of truth when you say, "It seems that nobody actually views the bible without the lens that the society gives."

Jesus used the society of nature to draw out a description of what the kingdom of God is likened unto.

Paul spoke of known poets that penned these words that have found their way into inspired text. Acts 17:28

The only way that we can have a pure and clear understanding of what the bible truly says, through the lens of the Holy Spirit, is to get out of the Churches. That's right, have an Exodus out of Egypt, Babylon and Rome. Leave the Pentecostal, Baptist, Catholic Churches and all her off shoots and get alone with God until we hear a clear word from God. As long as we sit under these regimes, we will always have a cup of mixture that the Pastor and it's organization will give us to drink.

When I left it almost 7 years ago, one of the first false doctrines to go was the Trinity. This teaching was conjured up by another great society of ancient origin that had crept into the Christian thinking. There is only the One God and Jesus Christ His Lord.

Society of religious thought have made their way into the Christian faith. When anyone says, "Our Church has the truth", count them already liars, for they have a host of other "truths" that are not truth at all. For in these walls are people in bondage, and if they knew the truth, they would be free.

I probably didn't scratch the surface of your inquiry, however, it was a joy trying.

 2010/6/24 10:51
jiyouk
Member



Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


 Re:

Brother snufalapagus,
I agree with many points and see the truth in a lot of what you say.
It is true that the Holy Spirit is to be the only lense.

However, I think you might have gone too far by labeling most churches as Egypt or Babylon. I agree that most of the churches don't regognize the gospel of Jesus Christ and just teach what the itching ear of the congregation wants to hear. I live in Korea and that's what's happening here too. They will not teach the blood of Christ and the redemption from sin but either go off way into puffed up spirituality or just into regiousness like the pharisees. However, I believe that believers are to be gathered around. We are to have leaders who have traveled the road ahead of a true walk with Christ, maybe someone like you, and disciple others to "teach and obey" the things that Christ has taught. We are to teach others through the Holy Spirit on how to have a true relationship with Jesus where it's not just doing the right thing to ease your spiritual consience cause you view the father as a bunch of measuring lines. But true trust and faith in Jesus and his character.

We need true fathers in this community of Christ, and I see that you have encountered many truths by the little quote below your writings. But we need our brothers to check us. There is just way too much room for us to go wrong with just our eyes and our own view of the Holy Spirit. I've seen too many people who emphasize the one on one relationship with Christ and thats good, but if that actually negates the relatioship you should have with your brothers.. I think that might be just Love you God but not your neighbor.

What is the church anyway but a gathering of believers who follow Christ and truly love each other, and are eager to preach to the Nations!

For me, I just find it too easy to fall into my own thoughts if I don't have scripture and other true believers rebuking and testing each other, it is so easy for us to go astray.

To follow up on how we are doing, our church has recently come out from a Baptist church. We are gathering almost everyday in the house of our leader, about 20 of us in all and dreaming that his Kingdom may come in Korea and in the nations. We're all young and have our struggles with our walk as we look to much on what I'm doing or how I'm living instead of focusing on God and what he's doing and what he wants. But we're growing in Christ!

Anyway, to add a bit more, when you are a believer by yourself and telling something, you have become a church youself with your beliefs and truths. You would fall into the same category as "Our Church has the truth" cause that church would be you(the temple of God) and the things you are saying are basically things you consider to be truths. Tell me if I'm wrong or have mistaken your words for something else here brother.

And about the Trinity.
I'm kind of new to the idea but could you explain a bit more on what you mean? What is the relationship between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

THanks brother for the reply~

 2010/6/24 20:39Profile









 Re:

Snuffy sed:
The only way that we can have a pure and clear understanding of what the bible truly says, through the lens of the Holy Spirit, is to get out of the Churches. That's right, have an Exodus out of Egypt, Babylon and Rome. Leave the Pentecostal, Baptist, Catholic Churches and all her off shoots and get alone with God until we hear a clear word from God. As long as we sit under these regimes, we will always have a cup of mixture that the Pastor and it's organization will give us to drink.

Yeah you right!
Amen Bro!

Exodus is what it's all about, II Cor. 6:17, 18

i'de never make a good Bapticostolic and Egbabyrome ain't my home.



g

 2010/6/24 22:15
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1975


 Re: Trinity

snufalapagus,

"...one of the first false doctrines to go was the Trinity. This teaching was conjured up by another great society of ancient origin that had crept into the Christian thinking. There is only the One God and Jesus Christ His Lord" (snufalapagus).

1)If you will,tell us all here on sermonindex just what you mean by the above statement.

2)Just what do you believe about the Trinity and the Holy Spirit which you left out of your statement above.

3)Who is this, "great society of ancient origin", you reference above? And who taught you about this/them? (i.e. particular person,book author,historian etc.)

Would you address the above inquiries ASAP(not by PM but on the public forum).

This is a fitting thread for these things to be brought out and exposed.

To the Law and to the testimony...

Isaiah 8:20 To the Law and to the Testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them.


 2010/6/24 23:25Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re: Trinity

Snufalapagus,

I'd like to second the motion for some clarification on these points.

Perhaps another thread would be helpful as to not detract from the original question.

Matthew


_________________
Matthew

 2010/6/25 7:23Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re: Whats the context?

jiyouk,

I've just begun reading a book entitled, Reading Scripture with the Church Fathers by Christoper Hall. The first chapter looks at how modern Christians view the Bible as a result of modernism, the Enlightnement, etc.

One of the points he made was how "theologians" were influenced by modernism so much, that they thought it was their "job" to actually create something new. (I use the term theologian in quotes because the author uses the word to describe anyone who professionally studies the Bible whether they are Chrisian or not.)

Hall points out how after the Enlightenment, even the Church was skeptical of traditions (as in, our own traditions) and as such we lost touch with the early Fathers as a source to help us in understanding the Scriptures. He also remarks how the early church believed the Bible was to be interpreted within the community of faith and how now, as a result of modernism, we view the Bible as a science book that we study all alone with our own sanctified reason. The question that he then poses is, "Where is this taught in Scripture?"

Also, I just watched a DVD entitled, Rebellion of Thought. However this video explored how post-modernism has affected the world (and not so much the church, as you were asking). The hosts interview some pretty serious Christian scholars so it was a good film. (The irony was that the hosts were a little off in there thinking, perhaps a little to affected by post-modernism themselves. They seemed to rely on their own reasoning instead of going back to the Scriptures.)

Yours in Him,
Matthew


_________________
Matthew

 2010/6/25 7:36Profile





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