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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7449
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
Remember that Jesus told us that we will know them by their fruits. So as Christians, we are called to be "fruit inspectors." What we are not is "root inspectors."



I find this a tad bit confusing. One cannot separate the fruit from the root - they are all connected. Without one the other cannot exist. What effects the root will be evident in the fruit. Happens in plants all the time. This is so basic that to argue against it is foolishness. (We grow tomatoes hydroponically for a living.)

Jesus teaches us in Luke 6:45 " A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."

Brother, if you experience distress because of Washer or Ravenhill's preaching, may I suggest you get on your knees before God Almighty and talk to Him about it.

Life in the Spirit involves growth, the weeding out of the besetting sin that hinders one in his walk with the LORD. Sometimes these are like the pulling of teeth without anesthesia. It is unnerving, unsettling. When this happens you just go to the LORD and talk to Him. He will show you. Been there, done that...

Guilt is not a bad thing. It is to the human soul what pain is to the body. Physical pain cause us to stop doing whatever is causing the pain. So is guilt to the soul/spirit. STOP, LOOK and LISTEN! there may be a train coming down the track that will run over you unless you move! So move!

God bless....

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/6/21 10:14Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7449
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
"the reason why the church is in this state", and "if the church would do this or that or the other".



If I recall, Washer in one of his sermons said the church of Jesus Christ is pure, she is holy. One should not confuse the apostate 'church' with the bride of Christ. (Could someone post the link to this sermon?)

I loved that, don't you?

ginnyrose

PS: BYW, Washer is a Baptist and I am not but still appreciate his ministry. How can you understand that?


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/6/21 10:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Remember that Jesus told us that we will know them by their fruits. So as Christians, we are called to be "fruit inspectors." What we are not is "root inspectors."



I must agree with Sandra that the root is just as important as the fruit. Without the root the fruit would not exist.

By the way, there is no calling for "Fruit Inspectors". We do not go around checking fruit all the time. The need will arise when we see believers who have been in the way for a long time and not bearing fruit and thus question him on his personal life, sin, faults, bitterness, etc..

Fruit will automatically grow when a tree has been properly pruned, bushes around it don't hog the sunlight, and gets a good supply of fertilizer from time to time. The roots will go down deep into the earth searching out for a water source. Ginny Rose's Tomatoes don't have to have lengthy roots system as the water supply is supplied below the plant. She is it's water source.

When our roots are connected into Jesus as our water source, then we shall bear good fruit. Not all tree roots are connected this way. Some connect just below the surface because they are content with the moisture that the forest is providing. There are great forests that have their tree roots along the ground intertwined with other trees. They are one so to speak, but their roots are not deep. In the time of drought they will endure for a time, but will die because their roots have not gone down deep. They were content to take the quick route for their source instead of digging deep into Christ and finding the source that will sustain them through thick and thin.

Whatever is happening below the surface will affect the cosmetic of the tree. We can plant a new seedling, it will grow for a couple of years and then we see it die. It may have gotten too much rain or too much sun, who knows, but one thing is for certain, it didn't have root in itself. Matt 13:21

 2010/6/21 10:39
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: called to be fishers of men



If fruit cannot be separated from the root, then we should not be found judging the fruit either; if there be ANY doubt that Christ be the root – then we dare not be caught criticizing or judging any fruit, lest we be found even to fight against God.

God bless you,


_________________
Lisa

 2010/6/21 15:43Profile
mielle
Member



Joined: 2010/5/5
Posts: 14


 Re: lysa

It seems judging others is such a huge controversy in Christians, it's a constant battle I find even in my own family. I know that some of my family members are unsaved because of the fruit in their lives, I asked some of the Christians in my family if they would join me in prayer and fasting for the unsaved members and what I got from them was an article from a Francis Frangipane to fast from judging. I read the article and 90% of it was biblically correct but there was a part that I did not agree with. He said" If you know you are a sinner and there are areas wrong in your life, yet you strive to be merciful, God promises He will respond to you as you have responded to others". Not one mention of the cross of Christ and repentance. His comment seems more like buddism to me, all about self.

I look at Jesus as my example and if Jesus was pointing to the sinners sin isn't that judging? If we preach the gospel to the unsaved isn't that judging? Come on now if you are pointing your finger at me for righteous judgment then aren't you judging me? I really think us Christians should be reading our bibles more and prayerfully asking God for wisdom and how to have righteous judgment. Isn't the work of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin and righteousness and judgment? This is how I pray for the unsaved and Christ said you will know them by their fruits.

If you read Matt.7:1 Jesus is talking about hypocritical judgment, if you read to verse 6 you will see if we do not have that gross sin in our own life then we can clearly judge the brother/sister about that sin to keep the church pure. Matt.23 Jesus judges and condemns the scribes and Pharisees. We need preachers like Paul W. and Ravenhill, church discipline is lost today but we can judge ourselves and work out our Salvation with fear and trembling.

Continue to pray and fast for the unsaved and don't compromise the word of God, keep the full armor on there will be opposition even in the church.

 2010/6/21 17:05Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If fruit cannot be separated from the root, then we should not be found judging the fruit either; if there be ANY doubt that Christ be the root – then we dare not be caught criticizing or judging any fruit, lest we be found even to fight against God.



Criticism and Judgment are two different ideas.

The evidence that there is fruit means that the root is Christ.

The question is, how do we know that one is bearing fruit?

It's tricky to say. That is why we desperately need to judge righteously, weighing both the pros and the cons.

It goes deeper than just quoting what the fruit of the Spirit is. I feel that it's more than that, for the world has some of those qualities.

 2010/6/21 21:08









 Re:

In Jesus saying, "I AM the vine" we come to realize something very important: EVEN THE LEAVES ARE CAPABLE OF BEARING ROOTS. (this is the normal capacity of life in a vine.)

Everything from root to stem to branch to shoot to fruit, and even the leaves contain the very life of Jesus while we remain (aka:abide) in Him. (something about, "in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily," seems to fit in right here.)


By the world's standards, maturity is measured by a person's ability to function in independence, and they call it liberation.

Being one of God's children, maturity is all about such childlike assurance that we totally rely on Him in everything.

In Him we abide -(remain)- with complete trust fixed on our Great God and Saviour.


It's not about striving or struggling for anything. It is instead complete confidence in Him. We can cast all cares on Him because He takes care of us.

It is trusting Him as our only source of power for service;
NOT: "what can i do for God today?"

It is hearing any of God's truth proclaimed knowing our own implication in God's plan;
NOT:"How can i apply this to my life."

It is an overflowing joy in our full and complete salvation;
NOT: "I wonder when will be the next time i will sense His presence and power."

It's about submersion in The Living Water;
NOT: sipping from the well that never runs dry.

It is resting confident that HE subdues everything wrong inside, all sin;
NOT: "well, i'll just struggle with this til' i have victory."


Only abiding in Jesus, though it remains beyond comprehension, we begin to percieve a smidgeon of His love for sinner and saint alike. His encompassing fullness, to me, seems like a boundless peaceful sea washing the world's shores with deliverance, wholeness, and manifested power to keep us abiding in Him.

Jesus said not only that He is the only: (path)-Way, Truth and Life; but, he also said, "You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free.

Herein lies the Truth in liberation: John 14:23.


Sincerely,
g
Acts 20:32


PASSION

Within my mind's eye...
Flickering from the past...
Come images that terrify and calm
A paradox in me

Nail pierced hands they run with blood:
A splitting brow forced by the thorns.
His face is writhing with the pain;
yet, it's comforting to me.

He chose to give it all.
Jesus endured the pain.
Paying a debt I owed,
and created
a paradox in me.

Nail pierced hands they run with blood:
A splitting brow forced by the thorns.
His face is writhing with the pain;
yet, it's comforting to me.

And in my heart I know that
You're the only One
Who could have came and died:
A Sacrifice,
As your God's only Son.

Nail pierced hands they run with blood:
A splitting brow forced by the thorns.
His face is writhing with the pain;
yet, it's comforting to me.

Nail pierced hands they run with blood:
A splitting brow forced by the thorns.
His face is writhing with the pain;
yet, it's comforting to me.

~KUTLESS

 2010/6/21 21:59
olliewesley
Member



Joined: 2009/6/20
Posts: 12


 Re:

Hey thanks for your post. I have a wife, im a young married, for two years.

I have attended a very liberal church you could say for a few years, i felt as though it was very business orientated, and it seemed so many people just didnt have that weight of knowing christ, i struggled with wether or not i was being judgmental, i prayed and wept for almost two years. Certain leaders who i was very respectful to, but in my discernment(i hope biblical) i sensed that they were very worldly and didn't really walk in light of Christs Gospel. I beleived that there religion was dead, but my wife highly praises the people as Godly when I truly dont see it.

So as i was discouraged, i met a guy who came in amongst the church who was very extreme, i believe all that he believes, and he says the church is not christian. At times he seems so very harsh and unloving, but he says that its all apostate.

i wonder where to draw the line as i cant walk in agreement with the church but my wife is highly involved, its agonising to sit and listen at times

 2010/6/21 23:40Profile









 Re:

Whenever God calls me away from it all, to JUST BE, a sense of majesty fills the air. Communing with God in these times, often more than once daily, His presence becomes more extreme about and in me moreso than ever experienced in any meeting, conference, worship service, assembly, whatever.

It's not just the more liberal that are 'apostate'. Most who claim to believe do not, yet they think they know all the answer. No matter where i be found with believers, often there is a sense of grief that most will ever understand. Still, you will not catch me broadcasting one bit of it. Love covers a multitude of sins. It is not those who are seeking after God that are the enemy, no matter how wrong we may think their methods be.

If this guy is not spending alot of time in prayer and calling others to the same with him about the issue hez jabbering about, he is nothing more than a set of those chattering teeth.

Where to draw the line?

Bravely running away is not an option considering your wife's predialections.

Tell you what, you tell him that you will be praying daily for God to move in the church, and ask him to join you. Don't just say it. Do it. (you'll see just how concerned this fellow is.)
...and at the same time...
With alot of continuous focus on Jesus and what he says in the first three Gospels and the five books that John penned you will see clear direction as to your course.

This guy has your attention on others besides Whom you have sworn allegiance to.

(Do you want that vibrancy back that you had when He first called you out? You just read the way back.


God Bless you in this
...and your report of determinations are anticipated.
PM me here with a message.

i commit to praying about all this.

(Two are better than one, yet a three-fold chord is hard to break<--somewhere in Eccl. ...and hoping this other fellow is for real)

Agape,
g


A waiting
Y our
R eply

 2010/6/22 0:18
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re:

Ollie,

How has your wife responded when you share your concerns?

Others,

I was not implying that fruits can be separated from the roots. My thoughts were centered on Paul's words:

For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. (I Corinthians 2:11)

On some level the connection between the fruit and the root is pretty obvious but there are other times when we can only speculate as to what a person's motives may be. Where it gets dangerous is when we make a correct discernment about someone's motives a time or two and then we begin to think that all of our speculations on such subjects are correct (or imparted by the Holy Spirit).

A plan in the heart of a man is like deep water, But a man of understanding draws it out. (Proverbs 20:5)

People are very complex and much time and care must be taken to understand a human soul.

I hope this helps clarify my original thought.

Yours in Him,
Matthew


_________________
Matthew

 2010/6/22 20:03Profile





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