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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Help, need feedback; Dead fundametalism

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olliewesley
Member



Joined: 2009/6/20
Posts: 12


 Help, need feedback; Dead fundametalism

I would like to discuss the subject of Fundamentalism or maybe dead fundamentalism might be more appropriate.

I encountered Christ and the holy Ghost whilst living in darkness and a slave to my sin, i lived a dark life. But mercy shone in my life and i turned from my sin to follow the way of Jesus. It hasn't been easy and i made some mistakes, but non the less i long today more for Christ than in those precious first encounters ten years ago.

I joined various missionary groups, and encountered all kinds of different ministry's. After listening to raven-hill and washer i can see clearly as to what man made religion does and is... But i struggle so much with this issue as so many people cannot hear Raven hill and washer saying that they are judgmental and critical. I have cried tears listening to them as it blesses my heart.. but mostly i have a burning fire afterward and can be critical of church people, i get so desperate to follow Christ and do his work in this generation, but every time i step out i hear the sound of dead fundamentalism..I hear stories of fundamentalists who are mean, harsh and unloving, totally contrary to scripture. I wonder if these men(whom i love) are making disciples or angry follows who are critical of everyone.

What do some think about this issue. I do pray and seek the lord and will carry on so..

 2010/6/21 0:49Profile









 Re: Help, need feedback; Dead fundametalism

These men (whom you love) are making disciples or angry follows who are critical of everyone.


It's a matter if those who hear are following the Master, the messenger, or their own heart.


g
Acts 20:32

 2010/6/21 1:05
olliewesley
Member



Joined: 2009/6/20
Posts: 12


 Re:

its a long topic, its seems i agree with their teachings, like Paul washer. But eversince i listened i wondered if i was even saved!! becasue i had been in movements which i now dont agree with.

When i first encountered God i belived it was a powerful transformation, i lived each day praising him with grace for all. But after listening to washer, i struggle now wondering if i ever met God, becasue i have only anguish now, whilst before i had great joy!!!

 2010/6/21 1:08Profile
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 520


 Re:

I like what A.W. Tozer said about dead Fundamentalism in his book, Keys To The Deeper Life:

A generation ago, as a reaction from Higher Criticism and its offspring, Modernism, there arose in Protestantism a powerful movement in defense of the historic Christian faith. This, for obvious reasons, came to be known as Fundamentalism. It was a more or less spontaneous movement without much organization, but its purpose wherever it appeared was the same: to stay "the rising tide of negation" in Christian theology and to restate and defend the basic doctrines of New Testament Christianity. This much is history.
What is generally overlooked is that Fundamentalism, as it spread throughout the various denominations and nondenominational groups, fell victim to its own virtues. The Word died in the hands of its friends. Verbal inspiration, for instance (a doctrine which I have always held and do now hold), soon became afflicted with rigor mortis. The voice of the prophet was silenced and the scribe captured the minds of the faithful. In large areas the religious imagination withered. An unofficial hierarchy decided what Christians were to believe. Not the Scriptures, but what the scribe thought the Scriptures meant became the Christian creed. Christian colleges, seminaries, Bible institutes, Bible confer¬ences, popular Bible expositors all joined to promote the cult of textualism. The system of extreme dispensationalism which was devised, relieved the Christian of repentance, obedience and cross-carrying in any other than the most formal sense. Whole sections of the New Testament were taken from the church and disposed of after a rigid system of "dividing the Word of truth."
All this resulted in a religious mentality inimical to the true faith of Christ. A kind of cold mist settled over Fundamentalism. Below, the terrain was familiar. This was New Testament Christianity, to be sure. The basic doctrines of the Bible were there, but the climate was just not favorable to the sweet fruits of the Spirit.
The whole mood was different from that of the Early Church and of the great souls who suffered and sang and worshiped in the centuries past. The doctrines were sound but something vital was missing. The tree of correct doctrine was never allowed to blossom. The voice of the turtle [dove] was rarely heard in the land; instead, the parrot sat on his artificial perch and dutifully repeated what he had been taught and the whole emotional tone was somber and dull. Faith, a mighty, vitalizing doctrine in the mouths of the apostles, became in the mouth of the scribe another thing altogether and power went from it. As the letter triumphed, the Spirit withdrew and textualism ruled supreme. It was the time of the believer's Babylonian captivity.
In the interest of accuracy it should be said that this was a general condition only. Certainly there were some even in those low times whose longing hearts were better theologians than their teachers were. These pressed on to a fullness and power unknown to the rest. But they were not many and the odds were too great; they could not dispel the mist that hung over the land.
The error of textualism is not doctrinal. It is far more subtle than that and much more difficult to discover, but its effects are just as deadly. Not its theological beliefs are at fault, but its assumptions.
It assumes, for instance, that if we have the word for a thing we have the thing itself. If it is in the Bible, it is in us. If we have the doctrine, we have the experience. If something was true of Paul it is of necessity true of us because we accept Paul's epistles as divinely inspired. The Bible tells us how to be saved, but textualism goes on to make it tell us that we are saved, something which in the very nature of things it cannot do. Assurance of individual salvation is thus no more than a logical conclusion drawn from doctrinal premises, and the resultant experience wholly mental.

 2010/6/21 1:27Profile









 Re:

Since you have anguish about sin, you are in God's hands.

i never had any powerful transforming experience when Jesus called me from my sin(s). I had deep conviction that made me tremble and weep, yet i never felt any better about myself. I felt worse.

It was a new revelation from God about just what He is like. I knew i would never ever make the grade. Today, more than ever before, i feel horrid about me, all broken up inside; yet, in relying on Him, He brings me closer and closer into relationship with Him...and that is all that really matters.

Spend time alone with God every day. Pray. Read His love letters to you (in the Bible). Be silent and still before Him and HE WILL SPEAK with you.

It's not about certain movements or how we feel.

As brother Paul says, "don't trust your heart."

Trust in Jesus to see you through and He will.


g
Acts 20:32

 2010/6/21 1:32
olliewesley
Member



Joined: 2009/6/20
Posts: 12


 Re:

thanks good word

 2010/6/21 1:40Profile
olliewesley
Member



Joined: 2009/6/20
Posts: 12


 Re:

fundamentalist now-a days seem harsh and angry, lacking patience.is this me being judgmental or is this true?

 2010/6/21 1:45Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re:

Ollie,

Remember that Jesus told us that we will know them by their fruits. So as Christians, we are called to be "fruit inspectors." What we are not is "root inspectors." Since we cannot know a man's spirit (according to Paul), we cannot judge his spirit (ie, his motives). Therefore, to say, so-and-so makes this or that error is not judgmental.

You should also consider how much time you spend thinking about other's errors and how you use the knowledge of their errors (to bolster your pride, or to pray for them, etc.) (Not accusing you of anything, but for your own thought/prayer life.)

If you are currently involved in a fundamentalist church you should pray about what God wants you to do. Sometimes we are called to stand; to pray and fight. At other times, God may want you to seek spiritual food elsewhere.

Do you have a wife (and children) that attend with you?

Matthew


_________________
Matthew

 2010/6/21 7:55Profile









 Re: Help, need feedback; Dead fundametalism

Quote:
But I struggle so much with this issue as so many people cannot hear Raven hill and washer saying that they are judgmental and critical.



For me, I don't criticize these men, but I do get tired of hearing the same old message of "the problem with the church is", "the reason why the church is in this state", and "if the church would do this or that or the other".

It's like hearing the Catholic Mass over and over every day.

We all need to hear from time to time hard messages that challenge us to change. We need it!! And thank God for it!

 2010/6/21 9:41
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: root inspectors we are not!


Matthew 2323. Brother, there is soooo much wisdom in your statement:

'So as Christians, we are called to be "fruit inspectors." What we are not is "root inspectors."'

Amen!


_________________
Lisa

 2010/6/21 9:56Profile





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