| Re: |
I just wonder whether men want it both ways in some countries. They see women as sex objects and the women feel that is all they have to offer and in order to compete dress provocatively.
I think that there is truth in this. I know that several ladies have shared from all age groups about the mixed messages they get from their husbands, pastors, and christian brothers. I think that young unmarried women feel the need to compete for attention because as some have said most of the young unmarried men say they want a christian wife who dresses modestly ect. but many of them spend their time dating or being with the girls who are all done up and immodest. One young girl shared with me how the youth pastor gave a four week long teaching on modesty then the very next Sunday was with his girlfriend who was dressed very inappropriately. That gets confusing for these young girls. That is why I think this teaching needs to be taught to men as well. Women do need to dress with care and modesty in the Lord but men need to stop giving confusing mixed messages too.
| 2010/5/30 11:25||Profile|
Monroe, LA - USA
| 2010/5/30 12:29||Profile|
| Re: |
The video is typical of the male blaming the female. Poor innocent males who are daily assaulted with temptation seduced by these vixens with no taking of responsibility for the reason why women are dressing like prostitutes. It is because men are treating them that way as my previous message says. If it is a universal fault of women then it would be so in every society but it is not. As though the men are powerless and at the mercy of their lusts.
Men have all of the power in society and are the natural leaders of women, women rather respond to men and women are not looking for sex but for love and commitment unless they have been damged and think of themselves as men.
If men want women to change then they should take the lead and demand that women are respected and valued for their femininity.
The video makes me mad. Misogynism. This guy sounds like he has done plenty of looking
I am not talking about nudists but normal people who swim in the nude at weekeneds.
| 2010/5/30 12:45|
| Re: An Open Letter to my Sisters in Christ|
true..thanks for the post:)
| 2010/5/30 13:02||Profile|
| Re: |
I will check the video out later this after noon when I have a bit more time.My opinion is not about the video I will share after I have time to watch.
I will say this I don't think it should be a blame game, both men and women are equally guilty of this and I think that if all are willing to walk in the Lord and submit themselves unto the Lord then this would become a non issue. I will say that women who profess the name of Jesus should use care when choosing their clothing, but men also are responsible for where their eyes roam and how long they linger. I always tell my boys when you first see a girl dressed immodestly if you allow your eyes to linger it becomes your sin because you did not flee. I agree that the mixed messages need to be addressed. Husbands telling their wives they want them to dress with modesty in mind but then allow their own eyes to stray and stare at women who are not dressed appropriately does send a wrong and confusing message to their wives. And actually men, especially young men need to think about modesty just as much. Tight, low rise, skinny jeans are marketed to guys just as much as they are girls and they are just as inappropriate.
| 2010/5/30 13:11||Profile|
East TN (for now)
| Re: women dressing modestly|
Kraut... LOL I'm so sorry I misintrepreted your words!!
I made a mistake on my last comment, I blamed the pastors (I'm sure as leaders, they are) but upon thinking further about it, I should not have blamed JUST them. This goes way deeper than the pastors rules in a church.
We are living under the New Covenant; Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals alike, we ALL received the Holy Spirit upon getting saved. Some say all and some say a portion... well, whatever be the case - "IF" ANYONE has the Holy Spirit, why aren't they listening to Him?
Why aren't OTHER women taking these women under their wings and discipling them rather than talking about them behind their back, or preaching against them? Just asking.
If we are our brothers and sisters keeper, something has gone dreadfully wrong.
God bless us all as we learn to be part of the Bride,
| 2010/5/30 13:22||Profile|
| Re: |
"Poor innocent males who are daily assaulted with temptation seduced by these vixens with no taking of responsibility for the reason why women are dressing like prostitutes. It is because men are treating them that way "
Oh pleaseee. Thats akin to saying "The devil made me do it." Women are accountable to the Lord for all of their actions, just as men are. No one will stand before the Lord and say "they made me sin, its not my fault."
In my vast experience with women :) ( I am in Real Estate and most of my co-workers are women) I have found that women compete against each other and it is less about men and more about insecurity, the more insecure they feel about how they look the more they " try," and compensate with skin. Do men oggle ( is that a word?) woman, yes of course they do and that is sin. What has that to do with individual accountability to the Lord? Each will give an account for sin. Yet, it is bad enough to sin, but even worse when we lead another to sin by our actions, man or woman......brother Frank
| 2010/5/30 14:31|
| Re: |
I'm in agreement with Frank. To say that Christian men who struggle with these temptations are in some way responsible because of the fact that their sex has made it this way is ridiculous. This is not a "man vs. woman" dispute where we have to root out the villain.
The idea is easy for many uninformed women to simply say, "well men just shouldn't lust, it's on their own head". True. It is on their own head. But Christ's words as always go a bit further in Mathew 18:7
The NLT says it nicely with, "How terrible it will be for anyone who causes others to sin. Temptation to do wrong is inevitable, but how terrible it will be for the person who does the tempting."
To the females on this board I wish to let them inside the male mind a tiny bit, to give a clearer understanding on how this works. When Paul talks to Timothy as one man to another in 2nd Timothy 2:22 he say's this, "Run from anything that stimulates youthful lust. Follow anything that makes you want to do right. Pursue faith and love and peace, and enjoy the companionship of those who call on the Lord with pure hearts." (NLT)
Paul being a man, understood exactly what goes on inside of a man regarding lust. It's difficult for women to understand how this works, not having the male chemical make up or drive that we're subject to. He doesn't say resist lust, he says run from it, because honestly that is THE ONLY way to fight it. Joseph resisted Potiphar's wife's advances at first, but he knew in the end, what he had to do was to run.
Now we have the difficulty.
When a man, who desires to do what's right before God and keep himself clean, has a young woman around who wishes to dress immodestly and show off what men have no business even imagining is for them, especially if she's attractive, it doesn't come down to the issue of, "well, I'm simply not going to lust, and now we're done with it."
It's a battle. A man doesn't just choose not to lust, he will sit there, and he will fight, and fight, and fight lust. Because unless the girl gets up and leaves he's either stuck there, or he has to get up and leave. And unless he does leave, the temptation doesn't go anywhere. When the Bible uses the term "burn with lust", it wasn't being metaphorical, many times for a man, that's literally what it feels like when you feel it, and decide to fight against it. It's not like resisting the temptation to steal, or to lie, or anything like that. With this temptation you sit there,
The problem is, you're not only fighting sin, you're fighting genetics. This is naturally the way men are when their eye's are stimulated by things that God created for good, but have been twisted and presented for the world to see, instead of one husband. It literally feels like a burning sickness inside of your stomach. And many times you have no place to run.
I don't treat girls like sex objects. I never have, and I will not. So to throw a blanket over all of my sex, especially the Christian men, and say that women's choices are on our heads is rather absurd. Each of the sexes will be judged accordingly, but like Christ says, "how terrible it will be for the one who does the tempting." And I'll let you in a bit more on the male mind.
If I see a girl who is stunningly attractive, and dressed modestly, I can genuinely admire her beauty and say, "Wow, what a beautiful girl." With honestly ZERO lust in my heart.
But... If a girl who I don't even find especially attractive, wants to show off most of what should be concealed, and sits next to or around me, lets just say my mind doesn't state the former, and I'll have to leave, or I'll have to fight.
To the sister who said that young girls are upset by the fact that they're dressing modestly and all the church guys are going after the fleshly girls, give them this to consider. If they desire to do what's right in God's sight, do they really want to be yolked with guys who are running after their lusts? Are these really the type of guys they want to pay attention to them, and to form lasting Godly relations with? To raise their children with? I'm 24 years old, and I'm not married, and I want to say this in all humility, but to encourage young women who maybe lose heart because of how so called Christian young men are acting.
I've been payed a fair amount of attention to by other young women who want to dress immodestly, act immodestly, and give off the appearance of the world, sometimes even in the church. To me, this is honestly repulsive. These are not the type of young women I'm looking for. These are not the sort of women I'd want to marry. These are not the spiritual partners that I want to raise my children with. These women are common. These women are compromised. Many of my worldy friends would be in utter shock when we'd be out and females would approach me, and I would shut down their approaches. A few of them even began to say that I was a homosexual. This doesn't matter, because this is how the world reacts to the standard of Christ. Encourage these young women that guys like me are looking and waiting for girls like them. Young women who consider themselves set apart and unstained by the world. Women of character, both natural and Godly. If they want to dress like the other girls who are getting the attention of fleshly men, and not being set apart for Christ, then they desire to be something common, and they lose out on men who are seeking something rare and precious. I am not the only one who feels this way either.
My closest friend is another young single man in California the same age as myself. He is extremely handsome, and girls try to get his attention ALL the time, but he won't give it to them. He's set himself apart, and is content to wait until he meets a girl of true Godly character. He faces the same problem as myself, the world accuses him of being a homosexual or having some sort of deficiency (haha, we've even been called a homosexual couple by many people because of our stand) yet these claims do not affect his resolve to Christ. He is not tempted by the common, and this drives the world insane. Encourage these young women that there are men who are looking for something set apart. And trust me, knowing my friend, he is probably the most Godly young man I've ever met my age, and whatever young women he ends up marrying will be extremely fortunate, but at the same time, he's going to be the fortunate one as well, because he's set on a young woman who's not familiar with the world.
The types of men that are really going to fulfill a Godly relationship with these girls are out there, but they're not going to be looking for compromise, they're going to be looking for Christ. They're going to know how to love them and fulfill them more than any of these other dime a dozen pew sitting males could ever dream of doing, because these men know how to love Christ first. Encourage these young girls with this. -Grant
| 2010/5/30 21:28||Profile|
| Re: |
I had a huge post all written out but then I prayed about it and tossed it. This isn't a sin where one sex is more guilty then the other, both need to be mindful of how they treat their brothers and sisters in Christ and both need to submit themselves unto the Lord.
I think the first post had some good points and many young women and men today need to think about this if they are truly walking with Jesus:)
| 2010/5/30 22:05||Profile|
| Re: |
Grant, I really appreciate what you have shared.
"To the sister who said that young girls are upset by the fact that they're dressing modestly and all the church guys are going after the fleshly girls, give them this to consider. If they desire to do what's right in God's sight, do they really want to be yolked with guys who are running after their lusts? Are these really the type of guys they want to pay attention to them, and to form lasting Godly relations with? To raise their children with? I'm 24 years old, and I'm not married, and I want to say this in all humility, but to encourage young women who maybe lose heart because of how so called Christian young men are acting."
These were exactly my thoughts when I read the comment, and I am a woman.
It would seem that the worldly types are alluring on both sides and excuses are made to justify their positions. We are called to be set apart people, not living as close to the edge of hell as we can.
I do believe it is important to for the older women to teach the younger to walk in modesty, but when you don't have the agreement from the leadership, who don't want to offend, it makes is more difficult. In case your thinking well you just need to find another church, well God called me where I am. I intercede for these young people.
I would suggest you all watch the video on youtube by Dr. Owuor, a prophet, where he is speaking to the pastors in Venezuela. It is amazing. He tells them exactly like it is, including about modesty of both men and women. I would put the link but we are not supposed to put videos on SI. Please watch it is powerful and very timely for everybody.
Thanks again for this thread because it is very important. This is certainly a foothold that the devil has made into the church, and we need to kick him out.
| 2010/5/30 22:28||Profile|