| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | "Would that mean that if I lose my mind and no longer walk in perfection that I am subject to eternal damnation? I'm just trying to get a handle on what you mean."
I don`t believe that one can lose one`s mind if one is perfected. The brain can lose function but the mind is not the brain and the presence of the Holy Spirit will preserve it. If Alzheimers is caused through bad diet, or cooking in aluminum pots is the person not responsible in some ways? Most degenerative disease is caused through life choice. If God is leading us then we will make good choices and not be enslaved to addictions like coffee and sugar. He calls and we all have the choice apart from mentally challenged people to whom He will be graceful if it is not their fault. I knmow a lovely schizophrenic lady who hardly needs any medication because she loves the Lord. |
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 2010/5/26 8:21 | |
ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | QUOTE:
"I know a lovely schizophrenic lady who hardly needs any medication because she loves the Lord."
This sounds like an oxymoron.
EDIT - removed a sentence...
ginnyrose
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Sandra Miller
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| 2010/5/26 8:40 | Profile |
RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
I don`t believe that one can lose one`s mind if one is perfected. The brain can lose function but the mind is not the brain and the presence of the Holy Spirit will preserve it. If Alzheimers is caused through bad diet, or cooking in aluminum pots is the person not responsible in some ways? Most degenerative disease is caused through life choice. If God is leading us then we will make good choices and not be enslaved to addictions like coffee and sugar.
It sounds like you are saying that if a person gets a disease that affects the mind in such a way as we have described, then it is their own fault and are guilty before God? If I follow through with this idea it would seem that a person could end up in hell over sugar and coffee. Do I understand that right?
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Robert Wurtz II
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| 2010/5/26 8:54 | Profile |
| | Re: | | The reason will be that the person was not filled with the Spirit and therefore not in Christ. That`s what scripture says is it not? |
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| 2010/5/26 11:41 | |
RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Are the mentally handicapped and babies filled with the Spirit?
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Robert Wurtz II
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| 2010/5/26 11:53 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I believe that babies are innocent and therefore under grace and the mentally handicapped, well who knows how much light they can receive but they will be judged accordingly to how they respond to it and it will probably not look like what we are looking for. In the fathers house there are many mansions. |
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| 2010/5/26 12:01 | |
RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | I have thought upon this passage much during this thread:
And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the LORD; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man. (I Chron. 21:13)
I beg to God to never a man or woman judge me on that great day. Let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for truly there I would find mercy. If I should lose my mind and man should relegate me to the damned may the Lord be my defense and I will fear no other.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| 2010/5/26 12:38 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
"I know a lovely schizophrenic lady who hardly needs any medication because she loves the Lord."
This sounds like an oxymoron.
Actually it's just the grammar. It should have read,
"I know of a lovely lady who suffers with schizophrenia who hardly needs any medication because she loves the Lord."
And Brenda, I know a few that have this condition and are very much like this lovely lady. |
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| 2010/5/26 16:05 | |
| | Re: | | Alzheimer's, me thinks, is caused by a bitter spirit.
It may not always be but the one's that I have known before they got the illness were.
I remember a woman who was a Sunday School teacher for many years in a Church was pushed to the side to bring in a new girl who was much younger and just starting out to teach was placed as the supervisor. This did not sit well with this old teacher. Not long after that, she ended up in the Alzheimer's wing of a local Nursing Home and died there.
I knew of a Christian Jew who lived on the streets because he had a fear of going broke. His family, though Jewish and against his faith, still kept tabs with him and provided for his care. He had money in the bank, but this fear kept him from utilizing it. He died in the Alzheimer's wing of that same Nursing Home, he was 45.
My former employer was a religious woman had become a bitter old bag, she blamed everyone for her problems. We used to lock horns at times as she would say that miracles today are caused by the devil. I felt sorry for her as she resisted the power of God to change. She had Alzheimer's for several months before she died at the hospital at the age of 65.
As I said, this is not always the case, but I think that if we take inventory of our lives to make sure that we have no animosity toward anyone whether it's just a small thing or a boulder, I think that our minds would stay intact. |
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| 2010/5/26 16:30 | |
RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: Caged | | Quote:
Alzheimer's, me thinks, is caused by a bitter spirit.
There would have to be a good amount of consistency in both directions for this to be a good theory.
1. Do most bitter people get Alzheimer's
2. Are most Alzheimer patients bitter
We would then need to know if a direct link between bitterness and the disease can be established.
Although I agree it is important not to grow bitter in our lives, I don't think we can draw a conclusion like that from our own limited experiences.
I have seen what I will call a dear holiness lady grow old and lose her mind in a terrible fury just before death. She attended our meeting in the Nursing Home many years ago and said to us, "I hope I make it!" She had lived her whole life for Christ and was winding down to the end with no real assurance of salvation. She was made to believe that unless she was perfect she would not make heaven, but would die and go to hell. Her hair was in a bun her dress to the floor. Never a mean word from her mouth. But she had apparently been taught that unless she was perfect she would not make it.
Rosie was in a terrible frame and begin to lose her mind. Years and years of indoctrination in the Finney/Wesley perfection vain left her mind in a horrific state. She believed in salvation by sanctification. Step on the crack and your damned. No sin will enter heaven. If your last act on this earth is a sin you will split hell wide open. The only way I can describe what I saw as her teachers would be to think on the madness of the so-called Baptist preacher from Topeka, KS. We tried to minister to her, but alas, the last time we saw her she was caged in a hospital bed. Imagine a steel cage over a bed that was 7 feet tall. She had gone insane apparently in tormentous fear of her everlasting soul. Where was her preacher now? Where were the ones that lied to this dear precious woman?
Me and a brother often asked each other; what could she have possibly been doing that would have made her so fearful of her soul? She was never good enough in her own eyes. I was so horrified by her death; having seen what I believed was a Methodist style perfection meets Charles Finneyite, I concluded that such holiness teachers were monsters. The people that did this to her must be devils! I have since changed that view. I know now that she did not have a proper understanding of justification by faith. Such fearful teachings meant to keep one on the strait and narrow stole her sanity in the end. What a terrible impression it made on me as a young believer wondering if I would die caged, insane, SCREAMING and begging God for mercy after a life of faithfulness.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| 2010/5/26 19:41 | Profile |
