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mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Question need some help please

Could someone explain the relevance of John 2 where Jesus turns water into wine? I am trying to understand the meaning and purpose of it because according to the scriptures the people were already drunk all the regular wine and were likely intoxicated off of that. Maybe one of you could enlighten my understanding of this story.

God Bless,
Matthew


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/5/20 22:50Profile
jerryaustin1
Member



Joined: 2008/9/2
Posts: 60
Louisiana

 Re: Question need some help please

It is indeed a topic of much controvery, probally more so between sinners and saints rather than amongst the brethren. It is confusing at first glance. If you can study what contemporary writers have written about wine, may be surprised. Unbelieving gentiles as well as Jews hve written about the diluting of wine. Most probally wrote of a ration of water to wine 3:1. There is even an instance of 15:1! I am sorry I don't have alot of references for you. I do have a book to recommend to you. J. Dwight Pentecost has a book entitled The Life and Teachings of Jesus Christ ( or something like that lol, google it you will find it). It has plenty of information and references on that subject. Not only that but that is a very through study on Life of Christ. Hopefully that helps you.

Your brother in Christ,
Jerry


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Jerry Austin

 2010/5/21 1:08Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Thank you Brother Jerry I will check out that book for sure, since Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith it would be interesting to read others thoughts on the subjects that Christ taught on.


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/5/21 1:14Profile
HeartSong
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Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re: Question need some help please

One must consider that first came John the Baptist, who baptized with water, and then came Jesus who turned the water into wine. It is interesting that the water was contained in clay vessels - there was a purpose for these clay vessels that escapes me at the moment, but it does have significance. Also of significance is that the servants obeyed the Lord Jesus just as we must obey Him in order that His commandments be carried forth and that His miracles be displayed unto others. And then one must consider that this was at a wedding . . . the bride and the groom . . . the church as the bride . . . His first miracle took place at a wedding.

 2010/5/21 1:22Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

The significance of the clay pots was that they were used for washing things that were cerimonally unclean I believe.


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/5/21 1:24Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

I just found this:

[url=http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1556.htm]The Waterpots at Cana by C.H. Spurgeon[/url]

 2010/5/21 1:35Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


 Re:

Today I was listening to Vance Havner's series on Discernment and he brought up another great point. While Jesus started out as a guest, He ended up as host.

 2010/5/22 3:02Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Question need some help please


This is one of those pieces of Scripture that goes way beyond the letter!! Doesn't wine normally represent the Holy Spirit? In the back of my mind, I think there is a connection between the “water” and it being turned into the Holy Spirit because the host (God?) saved the best till last!!

Also, I’m thinking out loud here that in the Old Testament (or the Old Covenant), God did not indwell in men; everything was outward obedience.
In the New Testament (or the New Covenant), Christ did not indwell in men but He upended the Law and took us to new expectations: inward obedience (That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Matt 5.28))
Our being born of water and Christ’s sacrifice paved the way for men (male and female) to be FILLED with the Holy Spirit because you cannot put new wine in an old vessel! The old vessel must be made new before the Holy Spirit can come and reside in it.
The Holy Spirit comes to give us power to overcome the old wineskin when it wants to rear it’s ugly head and to become that new creature in Christ!

I honestly think that the words, “Draw out now,” mean more than the words we read, possibly like: Don’t bury your talent?? A light on a hill cannot be hid?? (I know that my thoughts are NO WHERE near complete on this topic and are only the minute, minuscule tip of the iceberg and they are just random thoughts!!).

Saying that, I do believe that God saved the best for last, not that the Holy Spirit is to be worshipped, that is not what I’m saying! But He is God's last go around with mankind. So in my mind, this is making some sense, I’m sorry if I’m not conveying that across mere type written words.

God bless you as you find out more on this topic!! Share it with us when you do, ok?


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Lisa

 2010/5/22 10:01Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Question need some help please

I do not think the point of the account is to condone or condemn alcohol consumption. The master of the feast was giving account of what normally happens at these occasions. He says, "You know, normally at parties the host puts out the better stuff until people are getting drunk and don't care about taste anymore and then the cheap stuff, but you have saved the good till last." It was more a statement of the honor the host was showing his guests than any kind of a statement about drinking.

Actually, if you want to get really technical, one cannot make a Biblical case for being a tee-totaller. It is simply not in scripture. I do think one can make one seriously strong case Biblically that a Christian ought to abstain from alcohol, but that is not quite the same as "Thou Shalt Not". In America any kind of alcohol consumption is looked on by Christian and non-Christian alike as an inherently un-Christian behavior. It is associated with drunkenness in almost every case. In other cultures it is not viewed as such. Not saying that drunkenness does not occur there, but some cultures do not see drinking wine with alcohol content as anything odd for a believer. I am not condoning it. I have never tasted alcohol in my life. I am just saying that we have to be scripturally accurate regardless of personal conviction. I think a believer, especially in America, should not touch alcohol...EVER. I have solid scriptural reasons for it, especially in the area of bearing the burdens of weaker brothers and sisters so they do not stumble. That reason alone is enough to leave it alone.

Well, I ramble a bit. I don't think it is a scripture to stumble much over. Jesus obviously did not condone drunkeness.


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Travis

 2010/5/22 10:08Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Thank you all for your input I am definitely understanding everything better now, I appreciate all of the help. I am curious as to if this topic continued where else it would go.

God Bless,
Matthew


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/5/22 11:03Profile





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