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Discussion Forum : General Topics : KING PASTOR!

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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860


So I was studing in 1Samuel and got to the chapter where Israel asks for a King in chapter 8 something struck me that I am curious on the thoughts of others.

The reason Israel wanted a King mainly was to be like the other nations to have a king to fight for them and to protect them and to Lead them.

I then looked further in the scripture and God says "Listen to all that the people saying to you; it is not you who they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king."

He then goes into detail of what a King would do the nation as a whole, ie He will Reign over you, make your sons serve with his chariots and horses, He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants, He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become slaves. This list is longer in the actual account I just picked a few to save some space on here.

SO anyways I was pondering this and found that WE are still doing this today in the modern churches with our pastors. We have gotten lazy and expect the Pastor to do all the things the church is suppose to do naturally, like hospital visit, visiting the lost, visiting the person that came on sunday but hasn't been back for a while. Pastors are expected to do all of these things and why? Because he is now viewed as the 'Leader' of the church when in reality Pastoring is a gift not an office. We also expect the Pastor to guide and direct the church into projects and plans of outreach and most of the time do most everything for the congregation.

And on the other hand we find that some of the things the king does is the same thing that the Pastors are doing today as well, like expecting a tenth of our income (herds, grains,etc) We also see domineering Pastors that its his will be done or its not the will of God. and so People fall under the slaveship of a "King Pastor"

My real question and concern is the fact that we have taken the gift of pastor and placed it much higher than we ought to and in doing so have rejected Jesus Christ as the King of our churches and lives and we wonder why revival never comes. If you have any thoughts on this I am curious this is just an observation that I noticed as I read 1 Samuel if you think I am off base then let me know I love a good correction :)

God Bless,

Matthew Guldner

 2010/4/27 17:48Profile

 Re: KING PASTOR! (food for thought)

MG sez:

... we have taken the gift of pastor and placed it much higher than we ought to and in doing so have rejected Jesus Christ as the King of our churches and lives...

g: It's the way of the world in the church at large:
"I don't believe it unless I see it.
Because of what the eye sees and the hand knows,
the heart believes that this is so.
Through an array of the physical senses,
most 'feel' (that whatever it is, well, that's the facts Jack):
that the Spirit spoke to them...
that they are led to...
that they believe thus and so...
and on and on and on they go
where they'll stop
only One knows.

Where is Jesus in this?

More to the heart of the matter:

Do most agree (and seldom act) because of what they understand?

How many put all confidence in God and do so that they may come to understand?

How many times did Jesus say something to the effect of, "How long have i been with you, and you still don't understand?"

*thinking about how many times the Lord has shown over and over and over again in patience something that i just did not 'get'*

When our actions are based on what our senses tell us,
our hearts perception with it's resulting reasoning
is merely sensual: can you say, "of the flesh"?
(some call it 'pragmatic',but God calls it sin.)

Does your prayer list consist of what you think is wrong, or does it come directly through the direction of the Spirit, looking towards the need of others over your own?
(which of these two ways is really

How many are grieved by 'WHAT THEY SEE' and spend most their time petitioning God, rather than praising Him for what He will do as He has done?
(which of these two ways
IS REALLY A PRAYER OF FAITH(fulness) towards God)?

MG continues:
...and we wonder why revival never comes. If you have any thoughts on this I am curious this is just an observation that I noticed as I read 1 Samuel...

Beloved John though asleep still speaks," We reveal Him whom we have heard and seen and touched with our hands." Yet, Jesus said to Thomas and the company with him,"Blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe."

More than 30 years ago, the oldest of my sisters was heard praying in the household i was born.

It was all dear Jesus this and dear Jesus that, and it was thought to myself, " i better tell her that she is suppose to pray to 'our Father'.

When she finished, my SENSE(s)-ablilty took over to set her straight.

She looked at me fiercly in a way only seen once since - (when rebuked for not laying hands on an ailing brother, though the Lord told me to do so. How did he know that??? LOL now, but it set a fear of God deeper in me than ever before).

With eyes shining with fire from within, she tersely spoke one sentence and walked off.


Now, you probably think, "that's not right", him doing something like that; but, you know, in the writing world, professional authors call that a 'hook', and all those books that so many say stuff like, "once i picked it up, i could not put it down, so i read to the last page."? These authors usually place the 'hooks' at strategic points to get you to keep on reading. The visual media world does it all the time, and through this 'scandelon' many are ensnared.

Nope, that's not me. I'm one of those last pages/chapter readers. (go figure: Revelation is a favorite)...sooo, rather than another thread, she said," Do you really believe that our big brother and attourney does not talk to our Father... ...WHO ART IN HEAVEN???"

What does this illustrate?

Here: If we look to what we see and hear around us as the final basis of authority, that is what we are believing in. Some say, oh, i only listen to such and such, or _________ is my pastor, and so on.

Folks, all of this is idolatry, whether it's certain books of the Bible, or certain teacher/preachers, etc.

Who saved you anyway?

Paul explains to us "the whole counsel of God" is profitable. Where that is found? Well, if you are like me, you'll take the dislexic approach, however, it won't hurt you to read the whole of the Pauline epistles. (Guaranteed much better and shorter than most novelettes.)

(Matt, it's just my opinion, but, i think you're ded on in your deduction.)

*chin between hands pondering after a flash of revelation*
Ya know? That was a voting situation, and the majority whip ruled.

God's outpouring does not come by us seeking the ministries or shepherds or servants of His hand. God's out pouring comes by us seeking to know Him face2face.

Dare to be a Daniel and interceed the way God will have you do... and remember it's not 'them' that's the problem. It's all of US.

I too am apalled by all the threads about 'them' ministries and 'those' people, because, even though there may be alot of things wrong, the enemy is a spirit in the world called anti-christ, and NOT them or those. How are we praying for God to move in the earth? Is it reactionary based on our senses, or does it come from a heart purely seeking God's face, His will and His way?

Is the distain or grief scriptural or of the world?

If i do not have enough intestinal fortitude (aka:guts), to step up to the plate on just the internet...

-(a sideline thing God told me i needed to do BTW, this very computer being given and not even wanted-(purging this house from such tech. back in 2002)- but recieving NTL ONLY because God told me to, then, of all places, being led here to tap on keys when i would much rather go build or restore someone or something HERE even when i'm not working)-

...telling my faults and failings and how God teaches/works in this life, then learning from the sisteren & bretheren as well, what makes anyone think, if we cannot talk about ourselves relating to others here, that we do so IRL? If we cannot even face each other through a vortex that is void of human touch somewhere in cyberspace, what is happening in these daily lives?

Are we talking just ABOUT, or is it actually TO, those people that we 'hate' but will not admit it by one defining term?
Is that what love is all about?
Hatred is first manifest in apathy towards another...and then our own desires if continued in lead to passionate 'sensual' desires (aka:lust)which turns to anger turns to unforgiveness turns to bitterness, and then you make a mess of your own life which flows out into the streets.

What we sense and feel is sensual and worldly, and although these things often helps to get us through, they were designed and created to serve, and NOT master us, as the reason we do as we do.

Following your senses and feelings is like trying to drag your car down the street with the wheels in the trunk.

Never be quick to judge by the way things appear to be or something you heard that Cain told you what Ichabod said because he saw Og do it.

Is this site a reflection of some of the stupid thing that go on IRL amongst so called believers.

IRL, i go places here, whether they know me or not, often most will suddenly try to be on their best behavior like they are trying to impress me or something, but i'm just a share in the work and benefits from or get out of my way kind of guy: contribute or kaboot.

There will be no revival without reformation!
Set aflame and dropin the basin, then flood with water and open the drain to every doctrine that has been established through the meandorings of men's minds, words, books and let's all come together and get to the truth, in love, even though there may be feelings hurt at times. Now you know how i feel about traditions, often, unless reminded, forgetting my own birthday.

Will you continue to base what is believed and done on what men contrive and how you 'fee' about it, and all the sentimentality of traditions held with it
Will you follow God in what he is saying?

Love is not a feeling and kindness is not neccessarily being nice. (example? Read the book of Mark without your rose colored glasses or look as Jesus' words to the churches in Revealtion.)

When something bothers you, whenever, wherever, pray, then if God leads you to, do something about it, but do not let this become your basis of prayer, conversation, worthless mental convolutions, nor actions. Do what God commands in His Word to you and quit walking backwards down the stairs trying to get higher.

If you look to the meaning behind the english synonym used for the word 'prayer' in the New Testament, more often then not, usually it's defined as "WORSHIP".

Forget the reductionistic prayer formulas and do what the scriptures say.

When you pray, if you are not too proud and SELF(ISHly)-dignified to do it, how much of the time is spent in adoration of God:
-of recounting all the blessings He has freely given we the wicked and the good,
-of thanking Him for giving all of us just one more day to live,
-that HE is so good for making us a part of His family,
-that he couldn't have ever given us better brothers and sisters,
-of telling Him we love Him so much we will do as He commands,
-that you will serve Him with all your strength and soul and mind and heart,
-that you WILL obey no matter how great or small the cost,
-that you do not even love your live to your own death,
-that you will take up your cross daily so that He can live his Life out through YOU..?

Eph. 5:
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Guard your eyes and ears, and keep God's Word to you, Jesus Christ as our example to follow and obey.

Love and be kind to one another,
like the Bible shows us
and not like we assume.

Acts 20:32

"The kingdom then is not for weaklings, waverers, and compromisers... It is not for Balaam, the rich young ruler, Pilate, and Demas... It is not won by means of deferred prayers, unfulfilled promises, broken resolutions and hesitant testimonies. It is for strong and sturdy men like Joseph, Nathan, Elijah, Daniel, Mordecai, and Peter... Stephen... and Paul. And let us not forget such valiant women as Ruth, Deborah, Esther, and Lydia"
~William Hendrickson~

 2010/4/28 6:11

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