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Discussion Forum : General Topics : i am grieved beyond words at what we have become.

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 Matt, Paul Christian

what wonderful words, and i dont say that in an ear tickling way...no.....truly balm.

Though i've never met any of you brothers in the flesh, via the Holy Spirit, i feel i do know you, i KNOW i know you and that in itself is a miraculous Provision of the Spirit. i know Paul plays the piano, i know Christian lives in Sweden, Matt is "new" brother, to me, but your spirit is sweet.

i couldnt finish my thoughts yesterday, as i said the world intruded, and as you all well know, sometimes when that happpens, we get "thrown", meaning i was not fit to post.

humbly, may i continue my thoughts? what i'm about to testify is not boast, and if it seems like boast, i boast in the Lord, for it is His Leading. Every morning He DRAWS me to His Word, and i read. His leading for this exercise is like a magnet to metal, i cant but help to be pulled by this "Magnet".

i've been pondering how the apostles, and disciples REMEMBERED the Jesus, Whom they knew in the flesh, His earthly Ministry, right after Peter's first sermon, and the 3,000 who came to Messiah.. Also they NEEDED to write of His Ressurected Ministry, the days after the Crucifixtion, and before the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came upon the 120, huddled in that Upper Room.

The day after Peter's sermon, muust have been the day, that all who apprehended Messiah, and all that LITERALLY walked with Jesus in his earthly incarnation, were led by the Spirit to remember HIM, to scribe, to write down everything that Jesus did while in among them.

John leaned against his mortal body. Peter confessed to Him that Jesus is Messiah, Thomas touched the wounds, i could go on and on, i pray you get my drift.

You might be tempted to ask, "why neil?"

Well, it's important to me, not to strengthen my faith. faith is a gift, divinely imparted, and i thank and bless God, He has mercy on me, and gave me this Gift, and in child-like utter dependence, i recieve it. When i say child-like, what i mean is this.

i am utterly dependent on Him, for everything, the next breath, tonights meal, everything. God has even shut my mind to the....tunnels of theo-intellectualism. i dont mean to insult anyone, but i dont engage in the various verbiage and doctrines, words that man has crafted to make "boxes" to hem in those who belong to Messiah, save this doctrine, which is "I believe God" and i thank Him, that i have His Word in my posession, which is the Bible, Scripture, and i am filled with awe and wonder, at how those early New Covenant followers, apostles, disciples, the first 3,000, Greek "God-fearers", started the process of REMEMBERING Jesus AND preserving that Testimony, that RECOUNTING on papyrus(?) then leather scrolls, how they gathered, specifically the 11 plus 1, and began to write as guided by the Holy Spirit.

What must that have been like!

and of course, either thru memorization, or actually having in possession, the many leather scrolls of the Tanakh, the OT, to go back, and read the Prophecy of God testifying to His Son, right off the top of my heart, i think of Jacob at the Jabbok river wrestling with Jesus, hip wrenched, "I won't let you go till you bless me", and Jesus gave him a new name, Israel....and then we go into the TeHillim, the Psalms, Messiah Jesus all thru It, into Isaiah!

The prophecy of Isaiah! talk about a "forerunner"!

Its no accident the only complete Scroll found in the caves at Qumran is Isaiah.

I think that the dispute that arose over the distribution of resource in Acts, which led the apostles to prayerfully appoint the Seven, was because these apostles were in the act of remembering, on papyrus, leather the Gospel Account, that this administrative task was so onerous that it impeded their Work:

"3 Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. 4But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

Acts 6:3-4 (ESV)

these apostles were not fools, they didnt dare take pen to parchment, without praying HARD, before beginning to write the Account, the Gospel Account, this "Ministry of the Word"...its a True Miracle of God,that we have, in front of us, This Word....TODAY!

thats why in my prayer life, i'll tell you a secret, sometimes i pray that the "rulers", earthly authorities, make it ILLEGAL to possess a Bible, because as the Spirit leads me, when that happens, those who are His, will REALLY treasure this Treasure, and not even the threat of death, imprisonment will wrest this Treasure from our hands and our hearts. When that day happens, just watch the Church grow, become muscular, shed the limpness, shed the impotency of our current situation, where we find more "fun" in arguing this doctrine or that doctrine, or pronouncing with self righteous glee at the fall of this or that preacher, or throwing the barb of "heretick" at just another cracked clay vessel.

THEN, we really become "mustard seeds", the smallest seed.

so beware, be wary of any political party that trys to lay hold of the elect, through seduction, and relish those that hate Him, because they'll hate you who follow Him,and in their darkened minds, they will actually believe that they can "kill off", What can't be killed, or as Jesus said:

"Don't be afraid, It is I"

in Jesus' love, neil

ps...i aint done yet with this thread, i want to explore how canon was locked.

 2010/4/28 9:08









 Re: i am grieved beyond words at what we have become.

We are on the exact same page brother.

Though your thread until now, and the perspective is narrowed to the individual problem, much of what you wrote is nearly identical to your words.

It came about after meditating on the passage mgulder was talking about on the thread 'PASTOR KING'.

I have been led by God in intercession over these same issues you state, time and time again.

We shall join together in prayer regarding this,
and i'll still keep hollering from the rooftops,
as well as everywhere else this can be heard,
whether i will be listened to or not.

God Bless you
richly and abundantly
henceforth,
Gregg

 2010/4/28 9:26
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 516
America's Heartand

 Re:

I also want to throw my support toward the tone this thread has maintained.

In the aforementioned IHOP thread I was one of the ones posting with passion. However, my passion was diretly related to one thing....I was defending a brother that I felt, and actually know, was being wrongly accused.

Perhaps the thing to do was simply ignore it and let God do the dealing on all fronts as He sees fit. In retrospect that is probably the better choice.

The thing that really rattles my cage though is seeeing this constant piling on and attacking other ministries as well as attacking brothers and sisters in the Lord. Sometimes these "bashing threads" are relegating solid Christian people down to accusations of them having demonic motives or possession.

If I post passionately it will almost always be to DEFEND a brother or sister. I do not believe I have ever posted on SI in a way the attacks any ministry. In the IHOP thread it seemed to me that if there are 10 pages dedicated to cutting them to shreds then it wasn't such a big deal to take a couple of posts and defend them. In response I was then attacked for defending a brother. Guilt by association in that persons mind I suppose.

I also think I would defend the interests of ANY brother or sister being maliciously attacked....whether I agree with their particular doctrinal slant on a few topics or not. They are Christ's Bride and I want to be seen by the Lord as one that defends them... not throws mud at them.

Thanks for reading my thoughts.... I would much rather post regarding the goodness of any ministry as opposed to knit picking them to death. But if any brother or sister is attacked I also want the Lord to see me as one who defends those in His body..not assaults.

Blessings

 2010/4/28 13:13Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

The problem lies in i think that scripture lay much weight upon truth, in our actions, our speaking, our motives, but also on doctrine, and more important the church. So as Paul Washer says truth is like balancing on the edge of a razor....

So it is easy when we hae light on something, God has shown us a truth to get zealous and defend, correct others etc. We speak the truth in love, and also "....the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (1Ti 3:15 KJV)"

if the pillar is not a solid one, without cracks and not thoroughly made and maintained, the building will eventually collapse...

But in our zeal for a specific truth, we often forget another truth. God must always balance us out. This we need to remember. The Lord Jesus defended some people, others he spoke very condemning of and exposed for what they where.

This is a reason we need foremost to be connected to the spirit, an intimate relationship that is constantly guided by him, so we can know when to do and what to speak.

Sometimes by being silent, we may add cracks to the pillar... by not facing what we know to be the truth, other times the Lord may try press upon us to be silent, but we may fail due to we know so MUCH and want so badly to share it with others, but the Lord may not want that specific time to be the time of that kind of dealing, or something else.

beware of extremes, i am cautious of those that every time you meet them, all they can speak of is error, and heresy etc. Nothing else... but the other extreme is those who say i never say anything against untruth...

We are now in times where scripture, and Jesus warns us many times, beware.... so let us be on guard, warn others, correct those who are deceived. But my experience so far on my sojourn has been, there is different types of spirit in doing this, one is true and honestly caring, another of fleshly "i am right" attitude, i think we all struggle against such attitudes and spirits, but let us first se to it we are in the place where God wants us before we correct
others.

Its always so easy to speak out against others faults, but when mine is pointed out, how it stings....

May Gods grace be upon all to speak the truth in true LOVE.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2010/4/28 16:01Profile









 Re: elanham

"Fully man, Fully God. Jesus, Immanuel-God with us, doesnt that place Jesus' Words as THE Standard."


Once one figures out that the words that Moses, Paul, and Isaiah wrote are just as much the words of Christ as words that Matthew, Mark, Luke or John wrote, it clears up a bit.

These are ALL the words of Christ, it just happens that through inspiration, different men wrote them down.

Gen 17:1-2 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

Isa 48:17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 2010/4/28 23:51
DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Re: i am grieved beyond words at what we have become.

Hi Brother,

Not exactly sure of what your getting at with your post. You sound troubled, grieved as though your tearing your garments and putting ashes on your head. I hope that everything is really ok and we'll be praying for you.

I've been on SI for a while now and yeah there's lot's wrong with it, because there's lots wrong with us. However, for the most part, I have found people to be kind, genuine and honestly seeking to be obedient to the doctrines of the Christian faith and honestly seeking to reform a much troubled self-centered church culture. I thank SI for that and it's many posters. I know I have grown and have been encouraged and most of all I've been taught humility through my participation with these brothers and sisters on SI.

That being said as just an intro...no need really to comment on the above stuff.

I do have just a couple of sample questions for you though: Scripturally, where would you personally guide a fellow brother or sister who has questions like:


1.) Is it right to eat food offered to idols? (a young missionary may ask this question)

2.) What are the proper ways to select leaders of the Christian Church?

3.) How should (does) the Holy Spirit manifest itself biblically in a Christian and how are His gifts to be properly used in corporate meetings?

4.) What should we do if we need to correct an elder of the church?

5.) Can you describe to me what the Judgment Day is like and how will it unfold, specifically in the heavenlies?

6.) What's the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

7.) Are the Jews and the Gentiles the same in God's eyes?

8.) How should I behave if I am born again?

9.) How should I treat my wife and family?

10.) How should we live and congregate together as a local assembly?

11.) Is it biblical to pay tithes?

12.) What's grace?

13.) What's faith?

14.) What does it mean that we were foreordained to "good works"?

These are just a few questions that have been asked on SI and Christian churches all over the world for many, many centuries. Where would you take young Christians, and where would you go to seek the answers for these questions? Is one book or verse or chapter "more right" than another?

Here's to hoping you perk-up! The Lord loves a cheerful giver! Ha ha ha.

Here are some words to chew on:

John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Hebrews 12:12 - Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees,

1 Peter 1:13 - Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Like my dad used to tell me. "If you want I can give you something to really cry about":

-Look at all the unreached people groups of our world.
-Look at the complacency of the "churched" community
-Look at the lack of giving to indigent Christian pastors
-Look at the wickedness of your own heart and the undeserved beauty of grace extended to such a hell-bound sinner

Just because the members of SI enjoy some healthy sparring as they sharpen their faith in hopes that God will use them more for His Glory in reaching lost souls and strengthening found ones is really no reason to be "grieved beyond words".

Think of all the souls found in the description of our past brothers and sisters in Hebrews 11. Men and women are still suffering this type of persecution today. That's some real "grief" for the gospel.

Blessings,
Desi

 2010/4/29 1:19Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

Personally i think the "red letters" are quite powerful i was personally led by the spirit from error into truth by these "red letters".

John 8:31-32
" 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.""

it is abundantly clear that Jesus has the words of eternal life. But it is also clear from scripture that the disciples would be limited in there understanding of Gods words until receiving the baptisms of the Holy Ghost.

John 16:12-14
12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.


If paul was led indeed by the Holy Spirit then essentially the words come from Christ himself as the Holy Spirit speaks not of himself. So even though pauls words are not in red letters if they are inspired of the Holy Spirit they should be viewed as "Red Letters" in our hearts.

The scriptures also refer to the word of God as being "milk" and "strong meat" what we are able to digest is determined by us being yielded to the Spirit of God and growing in spiritual maturity and understanding. If we take out the Holy Spirit from our studying of the scriptures we may be in danger of acquiring vast information and little truth and as a result we may become puffed up.

Remember also

1 Corinthians 4:19-20

1But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. 20 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.

Romans 1:16
16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.


May the Holy Spirit teach us all truth

 2010/5/4 6:04Profile





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