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Discussion Forum : General Topics : obeying leaders?

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Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


Thank you brothertom for you kind post.
I have to admit that it was I who was assumptious and assumed that you were one of those "it doesn't matter what you do, but just do it in God" guys who give the congregation a broad road to travel about. I feel you passion for Jesus and recognize that it's flame.

I'm an MK and have seen more missionaries than people can imagine. Up close and personal as well. I agree that the title is not the important thing. Anyway, thank you brother for your last words.

My best for your all for Jesus, my brother! go for it!

It would be good to meet you some day in the fields one day.

To reply some of the other peoples posts.
It's not actually for missions that we're planning on starting a new church. It's because I believe that when you are call to Jesus, you need to come to him with everything. I agree that people can have jobs and work, go to university and so on. But of the pastor starts preaching "do what you do for the glory of God." men, who have wicked hearts to begin with, do what they want to do without ever giving it all to God, and after achieving it, just like a pop star says at the academy awards "I want to thank God,"

The rich young man thought he had two hearts. A sincere heart for God, and a sincere heart for God. Jesus made him choose one. The one that he was really leaning on. The gospel demands that a person come to the cross with a whole heart.

But, I don't hear the gospel, the cross, "everything" being preached. I don't have any bad feelings against the pastor as he's not a bad man, but I just have a desire to start a church only relying on God as our source.

I know that the most dangerous thought is "i'm gonna make a better church." Thorugh the times, I've realized how I myself am a sinner so deep down. not different at all from anyone that person who is doing the wrong thing. Yet I want to stand up by faith, cause I know that there is nothing in me that can make this happen, but just having nothing to rely on but God, having no one to help but God! Seeing him work though our trust on his love!

And I know that our pastor is not the only problem.. Maybe he's even much better than all the korean pastors out there teaching prosperity gospels, or just dead religion, or super spiritual things without the gospel. Cause he's sincere about Jesus.. But I dunno.. Thats why I'm asking you elders for advice.

About the other question on how can a pastor not teach about sin... It's more easy to ask the question "who teaches about sin." Almost nobody. Not just "because of our sins he died" or something as simple as that. But really what sin is. how deep it goes. My own sins and how I'm a person who fully deserves death.. The question is no longer "who doesn't preach the gospel?" But "who does preach it" cause we have all these seemingly spiritual guys on the one hand always focused on getting "intimate with God." It is all good, but how do you get intimate? By praying? And so pray 8 hours a day. By reading the Bible and so read the bible tons? All good, but the difference is, how can I go to God? What is the basis that allows me to pray? Jesus! His cross that satisfied the wrath of God and has me crucified with HIm! Oh! whenver the holy spirit points this out, I am intimate with God. All the times I've spen on trying to be spiritual yet here it was.. The gospel.

On the other hand religious guys...

So.. Its possible. It's easier to ask who's real than whos not real...

Brother tom, where do you live by the way?
I'm in Korea right now, but I think I'm going to the states this summer.^^

 2010/4/24 13:07Profile

Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 53


From what you have described, there is simply too much opportunity to get into the flesh in the thing and leave with a spirit of offense or to leave with a spirit of spiritual ascendancy or superiority and criticism of the leadership where you are at now.

Yes, agree with you here. I do see how leaving with a spriti of criticism or the thinking of "i'm more correct" will lead to the ultimate destruction of the new church. It is like one of the most dangerous things..
We're trying to avoid that road. Trying to communicate. Having a loving attitude toward everyone.. and understanding them.. It's still a process but I think I've become less critical than I've used to be through this process..

Sometimes though, I wonder if the church should be toppled rather than us just leaving. The lies and wrong things that the pastor did is enough to change the leadership. So am I to proclaim the truth to everyone? or leave silently? or leave with the people who want to come out with us? or stay?
I think the question centers around "how does God work?"
"are we to sit silent like david for God to handle Saul?"
Or "are we to rise for the gospel and not give in to the truth being twisted?"
Maybe the question is "the soverignty of God the main issue?" or "does man, with a facedown spirit before God need to act"

Agree that I really need to pray and check my motives as well.

 2010/4/24 13:28Profile

Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1935
Joplin, Missouri


Sometimes though, I wonder if the church should be toppled rather than us just leaving. The lies and wrong things that the pastor did is enough to change the leadership. So am I to proclaim the truth to everyone? or leave silently? or leave with the people who want to come out with us? or stay?

I could not begin to tell you, but I know that God can and will if you are seeking Him in the matter.

I do believe that the church is in need of reformation in so many ways. I am not disparaging the body, but I believe that God will adjust the body so that she is once again as described in the New Testament with every joint supplying as the Holy Spirit lives in and through them. I believe this will be accompanied by a return even to the NT structure of church organization and structure. That is why I say I am not so sure another "church" in a location is needed. I am not trying to advise you on specific course of action other than to seek God and have faith that when He tells you what to do you will have no doubts.



 2010/4/24 15:32Profile

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