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Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


dohzman you wrote;
"not being a great fan of Oral or Copeland " ...


Me neither, particularly the latter ... There's just something about Copeland that really tweaks my spiritual spider senses ...


You also wrote;
"What I concluded after it was all said and done was that it was just another way to get money. In the end they wanted money. My conclusion in the whole of the matter was that according to the transcripts I read of the 3 different Broadcasts, the book, and the TV interviews(3 of them), this thing has to happen this year".


See that's the thing that got me too ... i was channel surfing one evening and came across Richard Roberts talking about this new vision his dad alledgedly had recieved, then he went into "you've got to get this", and then proceeded to name an offering limit for it's obtaining ... That sent me into instant prayer for all in the Roberts concern because i said to the Lord, "Lord ... they're selling a vision"!!! ...

As brother Greg posted i too can see some things in this alledged vision that is true regarding the Church, and as for the "sign in the sky" i can even get to that as God does speak of causing signs in the heavens, but first of all to make up a vision or word from God as a malicious con scares me to no end, but then to do so with the added wickedness of selling it for profit just short circuits my brain ... i know that there are many charlatans out here with no fear of the Lords repercussion at all, but i sure hope and pray that Oral Roberts, and his family, are not counted amongst them ... I hope that in his case (if this is not an authenic vision from God) that he's perhaps a victim of fanciful flights of vain imaginings instead of maliciously contriving cons for mammon ...

And i wasn't aware that Oral has set his alledged vision into a time frame ... That's one of the things that i just recently found out about the alledged vision of the Garabandal incident, as that this "sign in heaven" is locked in to taking place in the life time of the present pope ...

i guess time is running out on both alledged visions and visionaries huh? ...

 2004/12/16 10:16Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Yea time is running out for both. Peter talks about those running greedy after gain in the error of baalim. I read up on baalim and he was refered as a prophet of God who went astray and got greedy.I rember what Wilkerson preached many years ago, he said if we refuse to listen to the voice of God and his word and deal with our secret idols then thoughs same idols would speak to us as if they were the voice of God, scarey. I guess I still believe ministers/ministeries should preach and teach living on the freewill offerings of God's people. Selling the things of God kinda concerns me. I wonder if Jesus considers much of what we see in christian merchandise the same way as he did the temple market when he over turned the money changers tables?


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D.Miller

 2004/12/16 10:43Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:



dohzman you wrote;
"I rember what Wilkerson preached many years ago, he said if we refuse to listen to the voice of God and his word and deal with our secret idols then thoughs same idols would speak to us as if they were the voice of God, scarey".

I guess I still believe ministers/ministeries should preach and teach living on the freewill offerings of God's people. Selling the things of God kinda concerns me. I wonder if Jesus considers much of what we see in christian merchandise the same way as he did the temple market when he over turned the money changers tables?


Wow! ... i'd not heard this before ... That is scary ... This is why we've constanly got to keep examining our selves/motives under the all revealing light of Scripture ... We saints have to be so careful of idolotry ... i know just recently the Lord has been dealing with me concerning my/our little small, easily hidden idols (secret sins) of Laban(satan) ... He said, "Sure my son you/my people are careful to knock down and destroy your/their big idols, the ones that call attention to double worship, but you/my people are still very guilty of your/their little ones" ... Well that's the whole lesson of Jacob's being called back to Bethel a second time, a return to His first love experience, but with the extra added benefit of he and his entire comgregation finally giving up, and burying even their little secret sin idolotry ... i dare say that our Lord is soon to call His entire Church back to Bethel a second time for our deep cleansing ...

And yes i certainly believe that Christ sees all this so called "Christian merchandising" as "thieves in His Church" ... i've been praying for some time now that God would do something unmistakably Him to slap us ALL to attention ... i don't claim to have any visions as to what He will do, but i have no doubt that He's about to do something miraculous about all this mess we've slipped into again ...

 2004/12/16 11:05Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: "Modern Day MONEY CHANGERS" ...




dohzman you asked a question about the money changers and i just got this from ...

ANZAC Prophetic List (Strom's Ministry)

"Modern Day MONEY CHANGERS"
-by David Ravenhill.

I’m convinced that the carnal, cunning, conniving, crooked crooks
that Jesus drove out of the Temple are still among us today.
These modern day moneychangers are forever devising new and
deceptive doctrines to defraud God’s people out of His/their
money. These masters of deceit have now set up their changing
tables throughout the Christian television industry.

I’m absolutely certain that if Jesus returned today He would walk
into the vast majority of these television studios and overthrow
the cameras, lights, monitors, and soundboards. He would
unplug the microphones and scatter the makeup colors around
as He went about destroying the stages and backdrops.

Several years ago now, a nationally know prophetic voice was
told by the Lord, “I’m sick and tired of the prosperity message”.
If that was true then, how much more today. As far back as
1986, the top seven media evangelists took in over 750 million
dollars. Now with the increased manipulation of ‘seed faith
teaching’ that amount has no doubt been dwarfed by comparison.

Only a few days ago I was appalled as I watched and listened as
Pastor Steve__________ zealously twisted and distorted the
Scriptures to his own advantage. This ‘brother’ dared to distort
the most sacred truth of all Scripture. He used The Day Of
Atonement, that day when Jesus Christ the Lamb of God shed His
blood for the sins of the world, to teach that how we give financially
determines how God will respond to us throughout the coming year.
My blood boiled as I listened. This ‘brother’ had finally crossed the
line and was now on the verge of blaspheming the atoning work of
our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not to mention lining his
own pockets with the proceeds. He might as well have been
selling indulgences by inferring that God’s favor toward us was
based on our giving rather than God’s unmerited grace and
forgiveness through the gift of His Son. What made matters worse
was that this same ‘charlatan’ was the guest of one of the nation’s
best known charismatic personalities. Within a day or so he was
teaching the same message on a local Christian telethon. Neither
the evangelist nor the network sought to correct his aberrant
teaching – after all, the show must go on and that takes money,
so how you raise it doesn’t seem to matter anymore.

Why does almost every single Christian program have to end with
some type of ‘seed faith teaching’? If these men and women of
faith really believed what they taught, they would practice what
they preach and teach; after all what’s good for the goose is good
for the gander. Imagine how shocked you would be if your favorite
televangelist and covenant partner were to send you a check in
their next mailing for the amount of $1,000.00 with a personal
note telling you he/she just wanted to sow into your life. Perhaps
then I could believe that these men/women really believe and
practice what they teach. Not only that, but they would never
have to appeal for money again as God’s return to them would
result in a hundredfold increase. At least that’s what they would
have us to believe.

On a recent ministry trip to the Northwest, I was told by a pastor
friend that his church had received a call from a well known and
anointed teacher in the Body of Christ. The caller was asking
them for a contribution towards the purchase of a jet for their
ministry. What a far cry from what the Apostle Paul taught when
he prefaced his teaching on ‘sowing and reaping’ with these
words; “ For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction,
but by way of equality.” (II Cor. 8:13-14)

Many pastors measure their success in terms of numbers –the
larger the church the more successful their ministry. Itinerant
ministries, not being able to brag about size, seem to fall for the
notion that having one’s own jet is how success is determined.
(Once it was the Rolex watch). By the way, if you love and
appreciate this fine teacher, pray that he won’t get the desires
of his heart - it will only lead to the leanness of his soul.

This is one man’s attempt to appeal to the Body of Christ. Stop
pandering to these moneychangers. These men and women live
like kings while spending your money to buy mansions and jets
for themselves. They dine in the finest restaurants, wear the
latest designer fashions and then have the audacity to tell you
that you can live the same way as long as you give to their ministry.

I opened my Bible the other day to Zechariah’s wonderful prophecy
concerning the first coming of Jesus, our great and glorious King.
Listen to his words; ‘Behold your King is coming to you; He is
just and endowed with salvation, humble, and mounted on a donkey,
even on a colt the foal of a donkey.’( Zechariah 9:9 ) What a far
cry from the televangelist who comes high and mighty and traveling
on his own jet!

If you are as sick and tired as I am about this waste of God’s
money, then for heaven’s sake STOP SUPPORTING THESE
PEOPLE. Give your money to your local church. There are tens
of thousands of needy missionaries who barely have enough
support to keep themselves alive. They are laboring long and hard
under some of the most difficult and trying conditions. They would
rejoice at the thought of an extra $10-30 dollars a month support.
These are the real heroes of whom the world is not worthy. Help
put these MONEY LOVING TELEVANGELISTS OUT OF
BUSINESS and save another MISSIONARY FROM EXTINCTION.
Together we can make it happen. Please forward this to as many
people as you know.

Thanks.

-David Ravenhill.

 2004/12/16 11:18Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Me neither, particularly the latter ... There's just something about Copeland that really tweaks my spiritual spider sense


Brother its off the chart for me. This fellow Copeland is a [b]false[/b] teacher BIG TIME.. theres barely any decernment needed for that statement. I would stay far away from him, "from such depart". How will we be ever led into ALL truth when we are dabbling in things such as these. I encouage everyone that is reading this thread to listen to this timely message: [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1724]Run for your Life by Carter Conlon[/url]


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/12/16 11:30Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


Brother Greg you wrote;
"Brother its off the chart for me. This fellow Copeland is a false teacher BIG TIME.. theres barely any decernment needed for that statement. I would stay far away from him" ...


Amen ... i remember when he first started out, and the subsequent awful "name it and claim it" era, and he/it got progressively worse to a point where decades ago i tuned him out ... Fact is i'm not to keen on anybody (that i know of) out of the Kenneth Hagin movement ... It's also one of the problems i have with Creflo, who to many of those in my circle who like to have their ears tickled would ride you out of town on a rail if they could if you say anything negative against him ... Thank God he's not allowing me to be ridden on rails in this regard, or my feet would never touch the ground again ...

And yes i too agree with your admonition that everyone that is reading this thread should listen to: Run for your Life by Carter Conlon ... It's a very enlightening and revealing sermon not only about the thieves in the temple, but also about the type of folk who like to be stolen from ...

 2004/12/16 12:07Profile
RobbieMcGee
Member



Joined: 2003/8/29
Posts: 29


 Re:

Hey all check this out. I just recently seen that there is now a Volume 2 to this so called "Wake Up" vision that Oral Roberts received. Its called [i]"Wake Up Volume 2: Last Days Prosperity for You and the end time harvest."[/i] A Prosperity message, imagine that.


Richard Roberts said:
[i]"Recently, my dad told me that God had spoken to him again with a continued revelation of his "wake-up" vision from the Lord. This message contains God's word to Oral on: The importance of Christians getting out of the world's system of debt and getting into His system of true Bible prosperity.
How tithing can provide prosperity for the end-time harvest of souls and for you through His:
- Ideas, concepts, and insights.
- Protection of your assets.
- Supernatural favor.
"[/i]

If the vision wasnt questionable before it definitely should be questionable now. This new volume 2 message that God gave Oral to tell his people is now available for a "seed-faith" gift. How ABSURD, you almost want to question these men if they think people are so blind to actually pay for something they say God gave them to give to the people. But people ARE that blind. People have been supporting these heretics for years. A seed-faith gift for something that God gives for free, HOW BLIND CAN WE GET? I looked at this and the only thing I can see out of this is nothing more than another product for them to sale. NOTHING more than just another product, they made so much money off the original "vision" this is just another chance to get more. I know the Christian TV station I just resigned from are all over this thing. Especially now that there is a prosperity message to it now.
I believe that God will soon make his real prophets known, who will take the message of judgment to come and proclaim it freely in the open and in truth.




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Robbie

 2004/12/16 19:22Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
HOW BLIND CAN WE GET?


Brother its totally Gods judgement on this nation.. allowing SO MANY people to be deluded into believing these things. It will truly be Gods mercy when there is a mass exodus of people from these teachers to seek after the true words of God and the life of Jesus. Carter Conlon in that sermon "Run for your life" states that most of the false things going on in these circles TAKES NO discernment whatsover barely... its SO obvious its false! its mind-blowing and staggaring how so many still fall to satan's devices.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/12/16 19:46Profile









 Just starting to wake up

I pray that you see start seeing the whole picture of sin in the fabric of this nation, from the lowest to the highest, take off your partisan blinders, and see thru the haze.

 2004/12/16 20:59
Ethan
Member



Joined: 2004/11/28
Posts: 23
Dubai

 Re: ORAL ROBERTS VISION

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.Isaiah 55:8-9

These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver. Psalms 50:21-22


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Shankar

 2004/12/18 0:13Profile





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