| Obsessive thoughts or demonic attack|
I have been having obsessive thoughts about losing my salvation, committing the unpardonable sin and have I ever been a christian ibeen so tormented with the thoughts lately to the point where I am having anxiety attacks. My friend told me that I might have a disorder.
Every since I was a child I have had obsessive thoughts For instance; back in the 70's when skylab was falling I couldn't sleep a wink, I would be up all night worrying about skylab landing on our house. Another instance of obsessive thought is that I saw a movie when I was a child about war and bombs dropping on houses, so everytime I heard an airplane I would hide in a corner of the room thinking that the house was going to be bombed. Another example is my Aunt use to wake us up in the middle of the night and tell us that God came back and left us here. I use to wake up in the middle of the night and scream in horror thinking that God came back and left me behind. This stayed with me for over 20 years even after I was married my husband would wake me up in the middle of my screaming and tell me to calm down.
I said all of that to say this. When I was 18 I backslid and lived in sin for a few months until I feel God got my attention. I was at work and the word reprobate popped in my head. I hadn't heard the word before so when I got home I looked it up in the webster's dictionary. To my utter horror it said rejected by God. I was petrified I tried to pray but could not. I cried and cried thinking that God rejected me and I could do nothing about it. Well I opened up my bible and found something that I had outlined earlier on it was a sctipture in 2 corinthians about examining yourself to see that you are in the faith. I talked to my aunt and she said God was warning me.
Fast forward 21 years andthe thought that God left me is tormenting me. I can not sleep. How would a person know if God left them,If they have no more chances and it's too late for them? I have sincerely repented for all my sins I have named all of my sins and repented of all of them. I have surrendered my life completely to God but I just don't have that assurance of my salvation like the bible says that I should have. Please someone help me!!
| 2010/4/11 13:51||Profile|
| Re: how firm a foundation|
I wish I could say that I could say something from God to you right now. I empathise with you and have known what it is like to question salvation like this.
I believe that for people like you and me that have struggled with anxiety in life, God desires above much else, for us to learn to trust Him. To rely upon Him totally and to resign our souls and our fate and everything that is or ever shall be, into His hands.
I don't know if it was in response to something else that you had written earlier, but a hymn that used to play before J Vernon Megee's radio program came to mind recently. The hymn is titled 'How firm a foundation'.
I looked it up just now and saw this last stanza. It says,
The soul that on Jesus has leaned for repose,
I will not, I will not desert to its foes;
That soul, though all hell should endeavor to shake,
Ill never, no never, no never forsake.
Whatever may happen to us and however things may look, can we not resolve still to go with God? Where else can we go.
Have we not leaned on Jesus for repose? Haven't you?
Surely He will not turn us aside, if we still have even little faith, yet we believe in Him.
There is a great chasm between us and God. And our Savior is greater still. Let us rest in Him.
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2010/4/11 14:42||Profile|
| Re: Obsessive thoughts or demonic attack|
I went through something similar about a month ago, and God has been working with me. He let something terrible happen so that I would have no choice but to look upn and consider him. I thought that I had sinned away my day of grace, but God has been teaching me something very vital; that Christian living is truly by faith alone.
I think you may have fallen into the trap of believing that your repentance saves you. If this is it, then you may cry out for some time believing that you need to maintain your salvation through your repentancew but it's not your repentance that makes you acceptable to God. And this may be the reason you feel so weighed down with condemnation.
Ephesians 2:8-10 - "For you have been saved by grace through faith; and this is not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, and not of works, so that no man may boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to walk in the good works He prepared beforehand."
I had heard someone say that you are not saved if you are not baptized. It caused me some stress, though I had to take the issue to prayer (I have been baptized, btw). Does baptism save? I thought back to Peter's words in response to the crowd when they asked, "What must we do to be saved?":
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you for the remission of sins, and receieve the Holy Spirit."
But let's ask another question: Do any of these works save? Does repentance, baptism, or the filling of the Spirit save?
No, they don't. Not even the repentance. Otherwise you would have something to boast about. I think that Peter was giving the people instructions on how to act upon the change that has been wrought in their hearts. If I have to say repentance saves, then I would also have to say that baptism saves, and that being filled with the Holy Spirit also saves. But if this is the case, then our salvation does not come from God alone, because we would have something to do with it. But we should not have any reason whatsoever to boast or in any way credit to ourselves the things which God has done.
The conclusion I come up with then is that these things are really only evidence of the fact that the person has already been saved, that God has already regenerated them and worked on their hearts towards repentance. And John 6:44 states that no man can come to Christ unless the Father draws Him, and He will raise them on the last day. That is, baptism and repentance are the FRUIT of regeneration, and not the cause of them.
Here's the experience that I had gone through. I was baptized four years ago, and I know looking back that I loved God and wanted Him and believed (I don't believe I did it to be saved, but because it was commanded). I was wondering that if because the Christianity I know now in some ways is a little more radical than what I first realized it back then, if I wasn't truly saved at the time. I wondered if I needed to get rebaptized, because I made sure that I was living a repentant lifestyle, but then the question of rebaptism came up. Was the first one good? I very much sensed in my spirit that God had accepted that first one, and that I was saved at the time, but out of fear I wanted to do it again.
It was during this time that God was teaching me about salvation through faith alone. I only wanted to get rebaptized because I was scared, but that's not faith at all. And Galatians states, "You who began in the Spirit, are you going to try and finish in the flesh?" Also in Galatians 5:6, "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." He says a few verses earlier that those trying to be justified by the works of the law are under obligation to keep the entire law. However, the law is for the unrighteous, and not the righteous, for we have the law of the Spirit; and for us, the entire law has been perfectly fulfilled by Christ in His life, death and resurrection.
I think you're trying to be saved by your repentance. But your repentance doesn't save you. Your repentance is an outward work as much as baptism. Esau sought the blessing with tears but could not change the will of God or his father Isaac by them. This was the "repentance" of a godless man.
Remember, Abraham was justified by faith long before he was ever circumcised, or before he went to sacrifice his son. We always ask, "But what about the works and obedience?" To rely on any outward act of obedience is a false gospel, and I'd just as soon try to get to the moon by a rope of sand than try and be justified by works. I dare not add to the grace that God has already paid for, I dare not. I'm reverentially fearful of even get baptized with any idea that I'm saved by it. Works have only ever been the fruit from the tree that is rooted by faith.
How should you take those warnings then? Just as that; warnings. God took me through a severe trial with Hebrews 6, 10 and 12 just so that I would be receptive to what I'm telling you now. God also led me to a good sermon called "Remember Lot's Wife" by JC Ryle, and I sensed that God wasn't trying to pound me with condemnation, but wanted me to keep that message in mind for something in the future (I don't know what for). It was gentle, as though He said, "I don't want you to worry, but you will need to remember this." It may be the case with you. It's good to test yourself and to make sure that you are in the faith, but we should not be afraid of the fact that we might actually be in the faith.
Maybe now I know why God gave me that message, that I not act as Lot's wife and look back at what I am leaving behind, or liket the disciples in John 6 who left Christ for good because of His message; that is, any sense of self-salvation.
Read Hebrews 11. It's all characters in the Old Testament and living under the old law, but notice in verse 13 it says, "These all died in FAITH."
Don't trust in your sincerity. Don't trust in your tears. Abraham only ever circumcised and offered his son because he already believed. The just will live by faith. Believe that He hears you, because those who seek will never be disappointed. That's a promise.
I hope this helps you, and I will pray for you.
| 2010/4/11 14:55||Profile|
| Re: |
When a man has really been convicted by the supernatural operation of the Holy Spirit, the first effect on him is complete and abject despair. His case appears to be utterly hopeless. He now sees he has sinned so grievously that it appears impossible for a righteous God to do anything but damn him for eternity. He sees what a fool he has been in heeding the voice of temptation, fighting against the Most High, and in losing his own soul. He recalls how often God has spoken to him in the pastas a child, as a youth, as an adult, upon a bed of sickness, in the death of a loved one, in adversitiesand how he refused to listen and deliberately turned a deaf ear. He now feels he has sinned away his day of grace. But the ground must be plowed and harrowed before it is receptive to seed. So the heart must be prepared by these harrowing experiences, the stubborn will broken, before it is ready for the healing of the Gospel. - A.W. Pink,
EDIT: In other words, this may actually be the key for you to something greater, something which you will certainly thank God for :) I'm not saying you're unsaved. Be encouraged!
| 2010/4/11 15:21||Profile|
| Re: |
In my experience I have found that God often allows prolonged "dark nights of the soul" to afflict believers who are willing to go beyond the selfish shore of today's conventional Christianity and into the dark, turbulent ocean of conformity to Christ. When we are but children, God keeps us on the shore and feeds us the principles of the doctrine of Christ, for the purpose of laying a foundation - i.e. a floatation - we can rely upon for safety when he begins to beckon us into the ocean.
The Bible speaks of leaving the shore and entering the ocean as "going onto perfection" which we read of in Hebrews 6:1-2. The reasoning is that the voyage on the waves is often tumultuous, the winds boisterous, the sunshine sweltering, the night sky starless. During these trials, it is well to remember that the Lord knows your ship frame; He remembers we are made of dust. But it is imperative that storms come and our frames are put to the maritime test. On these dark nights, when you are all alone on the silent, deep waters and your friends and family are hundreds of miles back on a solid shore of safety, you must learn how to distinguish between the voice of the Captain and the voice of a Siren. The Siren's voice is impulsive, alluring and seductive; it incessantly calls you to abandon ship and swim under the waves where a thousand and one charms await to tittilate and satisfy.
The voice of the Captain, however, is unwavering in sobriety and stability; undaunting and faithful as a lighthouse, it constantly recollects the meat and construction of the ship you float upon, it fosters confidence in the strong, sound sails and in the stalwart navigation of an unseen yet strangely tangible Wind that functions purely from the principles of doctrine you so carefully acquainted yourself with when you were hundreds of miles back on the sandy shore.
Understanding this concept, we can begin to get a glimpse as to why the Apostle Paul was so fierce in defending sound doctrine, even at the expense of confronting Peter. Maritime lives are at stake! It really does make all the difference in the world the training a Christian has before he or she disembarks into the ocean.
I remember a few years back when I had to return to shore after many years at sea, because I finally grew weary of all the leaks in my boat. It seemed that after every storm I encountered, either my boat would fill up with water, my cheap sails would snap, or I'd just go in cirles for months and months, circumnavigating some godforsaken atoll in search of fresh water. I finally got sick and tired of it all. The boat was unstable, because my doctrinal foundation from the beginning was unstable. It really does matter which preachers you listen to and the books you read while on the shore.
Yes, brother and sisters, God sometimes has to call us back to land - back to the shores we've started from. And the wretched, tattered boat you come back in - instead of salvaging it with yet [i]more[/i] patches and [i]more[/i] corking - is at last completely burned, and a brand new Galleon of God is built...and built the right way: built to last!
Paul Frederick West
| 2010/4/11 16:32||Profile|
| Re: obsessive thoughts|
i agree with many thoughts here- but I would say for sure that you are having obsessive thoughts/anxiety. Some people have a certain personality that is prone to anxiety/obsessive thinking and even depression. It's all in our thinking. We do it to ourselves much of the time because we are not taking captive our thoughts and renewing our minds with what is really true.
I have alot of personal experience with these issues too :) One things for sure- be a little compassionate with yourself. We tend to be very hard taskmasters with ourselves and we tend to think that God is as well.
You are going to be ok. God knows all about your obsessive thoughts and He wants you to learn how to renew your mind and choose to think on things that are true, noble, even positive.
you may want to check out www.stresscenter.com .Along with reading and memorizing comforting scripture, and the promises of God- the Midwest Stress center helped me a ton with staying postive and helping me to realize that i could overcome my anxiety and obsessive thinking. I still have to work on it now and then- but i have the tools I need so it doesn't scare me or bring me down anymore. So thankful to God for that program!
Praying that you find peace of mind, Chanin
| 2010/4/11 16:55||Profile|
| Re: Obsessive thoughts or demonic attack|
The Hellenistic Greek world in which the Bible was written, and to the Corinthian Gentiles, a thought is a d(a)emon. They recognized thoughts as things, and we might do well to do the same: roaming like wild animals through the forest of our minds.
Every idea/concept(ualization) (power) had a principle (principality) behind it, and every thought is composed as such. (These word renderings are also relative to authority structures of government, and one would do well to read the book of Daniel to get a clearer picture of what is actually occuring in respect to government and governing your mind.)
Imagination is understood to be the seedbed of thoughts, and the battleground for control of the mind.
When e-motions -[ (biochemical) ENERGY-(in)-MOTION ]- begin reacting to the imagined, it causes us to act according to the way our somata-(elation/depression&pleasure/pain principle)- percieves. Whatever is thought, is acted on accordingly, though often unexplainable to us.
God knows exactly what is going on.
For example, if i say the word "demon", we tend to anthropomorphize(sp?), thinking of a 'spiritual' entity, and depending on ones belief system, will act in faith/desire or fear/aversion accordingly.
They who think of the letters D-E-M-O-N, rather than imagining something are few and far between.
Due to the e-motive response to what is pictured in the imagination, even so a person acts. Nobody but nobody does anything for no reason(ing), and our rationale is functioning fully effective whether we tend to focus our attention on what we are thinking or not. Usually a person does not understand the thoughts and intents of their 'hearts' unless God intervense and reveals it to them, though reasoning in the flesh will produce all kinds of false "strongholds" (aka:dominions), which in turn produce bad habits, such as obsessive/compulsive behavior.
We really should never work on knowing our wicked decietful hearts. It will trick us every time. Jer. 17:9
We need to work on knowing God's heart. it's the choice between idolatry and godliness. Jn. 14:15,21,23 /Jn. 15:9-10,11
Some say the subconcious is the culprit, but God knows better!
Sin is the culprit, darkening and clouding consciousness(<-this is meant as only an analogy right here and in the following paragraph); but, actually reaches far deeper.
There is no such thing as a subconscious according to the Biblical recognition of man's constitution. (consciousness can be compared to the difference between light and darkness. Stars are still there in the daylight, yet we cannot see them. If it is cloudy at night we cannot see them either. Even so, we are fully functional on all levels of conscousness all the time, but it is a matter of where we focus our attention-comperable to light, darkness, and cloudiness.)
In light of all this, to the Corinthians and to us as well, we will do good heeding all scriptural admonitions:
II Cor. 10:3,4,5
You know you believe, though you have let daemons,ie., thoughts convince you otherwise.
Consider all God has done for you and know you are His child. Praise and thank Him, and if indeed you see the reprobate in you, God will remove it as you focus on His testimony to you, ie., the scriptures.
"Reprobate' in the greek means "to be unable to discern between right and wrong and so act". Ultimately, a person "fails the test" in a rebrobate condition. Facts are, all of us are reprobate in different ways. (see Rom. 1:21-32. Rom. 1:29-31 give a pretty comprehensive list of things we do being reprobate as we are in our flesh.
Get rid of those picture images that haunt you by subjecting them to Christ Jesus: the Living Word of God abiding forever and ever. The wrong thinking will leave accordingly.
Obsession is not far from possession and the only thing that is the deciding factor is the faith(fulness) or fear(fulness), Jn.14:1 or Job. 3:25.
Go with God, and He will guide you as he has in the past:
Trust and obey.
Learn of God and live in His joy that will always make you strong!
He will rejoice over you with singing, with his song:
("hey Gabe and Mich... come and look at this! That's my child over there! Look at her following in what i said do! I will bless her! Now here is what i want all you guys to do...")
Lastly, you had to have heard the word 'reprobate' somewhere first before it ever was able to pop up in your mind.
edited: grammatical errors
| 2010/4/11 20:07|
I Tim. 1:5ESV
II Tim. 1:7
| 2010/4/11 20:45|
| Re: |
God is teaching you how to fight brother!!
| 2010/4/13 9:24||Profile|
| Re: Obsessive thoughts or demonic attack|
It seems to me like you have an undiagnosed case of OCD.
It is a legitimate illness that manifests itself in many different ways.
In believers the illness can often take on religious intrusive thought themes. People with ocd sometimes also have tourettes syndrome as a child. I dont think it's demonic in your case it probably is ocd.
Look up the term Scrupulosity and ocd.
| 2010/4/14 6:52||Profile|