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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Marriage/Divorce & Remarriage- What does God say about it?

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Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Quote:
A cat and a dog tied together by their tails would also be a union.



Perhaps it would be, but given the dictionary definition (as it is not a biblical word) of the word union I would say that marriage is much more of a union than a cat and a dog with their tails tied together:

un•ion
1.
a. The act of uniting or the state of being united.
b. A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit.
2. Mathematics. A set, every member of which is an element of one or another of two or more given sets.
3. Agreement or harmony resulting from the uniting of individuals; concord.
4.
a. The state of matrimony; marriage: “The element that was to make possible such a union was trust in each other's love” (Kate Chopin).
b. Sexual intercourse.
5.
a. A combination of parishes for joint administration of relief for the poor in Great Britain.
b. A workhouse maintained by such a union.
6. A labor union.
7. A coupling device for connecting parts, such as pipes or rods.
8. A device on a flag or ensign, occupying the upper inner corner or the entire field, that signifies the union of two or more sovereignties.
9. often Union
a. An organization at a college or university that provides facilities for recreation; a student union.
b. A building housing such facilities.
10. Union The United States of America regarded as a national unit, especially during the Civil War.


_________________
Mark Nash

 2004/10/18 9:32Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Hello Dohzman.

Thanks for the nice tone of your post. I know this can be a contentious topic from past experience. One thing I wanted to address is "God honors all marriage". I would humbly say I don't believe that to be the case. In the cases of the remarriages Jesus defined as adultery, I don't believe He honors those unions. At least I can find a scriptural precedent which says He does. It appears to me that that unions are viewed as sinful unions---unlawful relations with someone other than your spouse.

I believe you are quite right in how the remarriage waters have been muddied. Personally, I am not comfortable to say that because someone left their spouse they are probably not saved. The leaving is a "sin" most likely, but where do we draw the line between which sins define a believer from a non believer. Even believers are capable of committing great sins when they give themselves over to the flesh and ignore the Spirit of God.

I just don't see Jesus making that differentiation when it comes to marriage and the permanency of it. In the case of the faithful Christian whose spouse has remarried being able to marry, I believe Jesus spoke to this as well. In Mt. 19:9 the "offended" wife was put away, husband remarries (Jesus defines this as adultery), yet Jesus also prohibits the offended wife from remarriage herself----unless she also wants to enter into adultery. It appears to me that just because our spouse sins against us, that doesn't give us right to sin against them in return and God-----at least that's how I read Mt. 19:9 as well as Paul's admonishment in I Cor. 7:10-11. Blessings.........


_________________
Cindy

 2004/10/18 9:32Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re: what is marriage?

Well, biblically speaking a marriage is shown to occur when 2 people(edited to add: one eligible woman/1 eligible man);-) make a commitment of marriage to one another, taking vows and it is publically/civilly acknowledged. Some people seem to believe sex is what makes a marriage. I disagree as scripture shows that Joseph took Mary to wife BEFORE they joined together sexually (Mt. 1:18,24). Blessings..........


_________________
Cindy

 2004/10/18 9:37Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Quote:
scripture shows that Joseph took Mary to wife BEFORE they joined together sexually (Mt. 1:18,24).



Actually they were only betrothed...


_________________
Mark Nash

 2004/10/18 10:23Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

You're correct in verse 18, but verse 24 shows that He then did take her to be his wife, but did not "know" her until after Jesus was born. Blessings............


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Cindy

 2004/10/18 10:33Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Quote:
You're correct in verse 18, but verse 24 shows that He then did take her to be his wife, but did not "know" her until after Jesus was born.



This is true, he may have "publically" "married" her, but I agree with Philologos who said there are three elements of marriage:

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1923&forum=36&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=0


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Mark Nash

 2004/10/18 10:53Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Do you believe then that if a couple is unable to consummate their marriage, it is not a lawful marriage in the eyes of God?


_________________
Cindy

 2004/10/18 13:32Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Well, biblically speaking a marriage is shown to occur when 2 people(edited to add: one eligible woman/1 eligible man) make a commitment of marriage to one another, taking vows and it is publically/civilly acknowledged. Some people seem to believe sex is what makes a marriage. I disagree as scripture shows that Joseph took Mary to wife BEFORE they joined together sexually (Mt. 1:18,24). Blessings..........


Hi
'biblically speaking' a 'marriage' has no definition which is one of the things that makes it important to proceed with caution on this topic.

'biblically speaking' neither Hebrew nor Greek have a word for husband or wife. In each case the point is made with a possessive pronoun e.g. his woman, or her man. Jesus' exact words to the Samaritan woman were The woman answered and said, I have no man. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no man: For thou hast had five men; and he whom thou now hast is not thy man: in that saidst thou truly.(Joh 4:17-18 Lit Translation)

Originally the 'church' did not perform marriages, so the concept of a 'Christian Marriage' although clear to many Christians does not have a clear biblical foundation.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/10/18 14:37Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:

lastblast wrote:
Do you believe then that if a couple is unable to consummate their marriage, it is not a lawful marriage in the eyes of God?



Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is [b]one with her in body?[/b] For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."

It is not so much a fulfilling of Gods law, but a joining to oneness. The word [b][i]one[/b][/i] is the same as the word used in Ephesians 5:31. I would liken it to same who is saved but not baptised. You got the whole package but something is missing. ;-)


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2004/10/18 14:43Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

There may not be a defintion per se, but there are examples of marriage shown in scripture and which defines each. Personally, I do not define "christian marriage" as the only exceptable marriage to the Lord as some may. I believe that He acknowledges all first marriages as "lawful"/not sin (with the exception of a believer being married to an unbeliever----which is sin). I do not believe a marriage has to be performed "in the church" as is taught in the RC church. I don't see any evidence of that in scripture. It is remarriages which are up for question.

Concerning the use of "husband" in the greek, it appears that the usage depends upon the context of the passage---man, not being the only definitin for ajhnvr as is shown below:

Strong's Number: 435 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ajnhvr a primary word cf (444)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Aner 1:360,59
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
an'-ayr Noun Masculine

Definition
with reference to sex
of a male
of a husband
of a betrothed or future husband
with reference to age, and to distinguish an adult man from a boy
any male
used generically of a group of both men and women

Here again, concerning "wife", the greek word "gunhv", can be used for either a woman or a wife, depending upon the context.

Strong's Number: 1135 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
gunhv probably from the base of (1096)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Gune 1:776,134
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
goo-nay' Noun Feminine

Definition
a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow
a wife
of a betrothed woman

King James Word Usage - Total: 221
women 129, wife 92

Blessings...........


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Cindy

 2004/10/18 15:03Profile





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