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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Praying for Rick Warren

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 Re:

Hey Jon,

Got a question for you. I personally pray for the unsaved as God leads. But, can you name one scripture that is a direct command for praying for the unsaved? I can find all kinds of exhortations to pray for the saints though. In fact, I find it over and over again.

The only round about references I can find it Paul saying his prayer was that his kinsman would be saved (but he knew the majority of them wouldn't be). That's really it. (Even Jesus didn't pray for all unbelievers)

Paul seemed to have this confidence that if he preached the gospel people would be saved. The power was in preaching.

If you never have... you should do a study on the amount of times we're exhorted to pray for the saints and the amount of times we're exhorted to pray for the lost. It will clearly show you where God's focus is.

God Bless.....

 2010/4/2 21:11
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

We are taught to pray for the salvation of men and women in general indirectly in the Lord's example of prayer saying 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on Earth, as it is in Heaven' and directly so in the Lord's exhortaion to the disciples to ask God to thrust forth laborers. Paul's exhortation to Timothy is the same as well(1Ti 2:1-8).


We are given a direct instruction(or at least liberty to do so) to pray for others to be saved in the Lord's commandment:

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.


and also, love thy neighbor as thyself.


I do not think it would be an abuse of the proverb to apply it here also, which says, open thy mouth for the dumb, and plead the cause of the poor and needy. If before earthly kings, how much more before God, the King of kings(Luke 11:5-13).



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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2010/4/2 21:57Profile









 Re:

Hi ChrisJD,

Like I said in my post...those are indirect references.

Even Paul's exhortation to Timothy in 1 Tim 2:1-8 is really for the benifit of the Saints. We are to pray for them so "we" made lead a quite, and peacable life in goodness and honesty. That's a little different than Paul telling Timothy to pray for all their salvation.

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't pray for the lost as the Lord leads. However, the great exhortation, command, and emphisis in the New Testament is that we are to pray for the SAINTS of God. Just do a search and you'll see how often we are exhorted to pray for the Saints as compared to the lost.

Again, I think the reason is Paul just understood that the power to save men was in the preaching of the Gospel. He knew that if he preached men would be saved. It is God's ordained method.

 2010/4/2 22:07
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi sscott,

I understand what you are saying and I think you have an excellent point to make.



But I disagree with you about these passages,


"Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't pray for the lost as the Lord leads."


I believe the Lord Jesus commands us to love others as we love ourselves and to do to others what we would have done to us. It may be that God will at times put upon our hearts to pray for someone especially, but I do not believe He has restricted us from lifting others up to Him that are already upon our hearts. Which I do not know how it is not for us all the whole world.



Charles Spurgeon said in a Sermon titled 'The Wailing of Risca'


"Oh, my brothers and sisters in Christ, if sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our bodies; and if they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees, imploring them to stay, and not madly to destroy themselves. If hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go there unwarned and unprayed for."


I do not know how we cannot see every single person that comes before our face and desire not to pray to God for that person.

Proverbs 31:8-9


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2010/4/2 22:23Profile









 Re:

Hi Chris,

Quote:
Which I do not know how it is not for us all the whole world.



Are you saying we are to pray for the savlation of the whole world? I could never do that because it would be futile. I already know that the vast majority of humanity will be lost. My pray would not change that because God has already fortold it. But, I can do like Jesus and pray for those who will believe.



"Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction. 9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy."

I think the primary application for Proverbst 31:8-9 is that we are "open our mouth" in other words...go and tell and warn men that are appointed/headed to destruction...ect.

Quote:
I do not know how we cannot see every single person that comes before our face and desire not to pray to God for that person.



I understand what your saying but I think the more appropriate thing to say would be "how can we see people and not open our mouth and preach to them the message that if they believe they will be saved".

Remember Paul said how shall they believe unless one be sent to preach. He did not say how shall one believe unless one pray.

Again, I know what I'm staying can be taken as if I'm saying to never pray for the lost. I'm not saying that. I just think that there's a great disconnect in much of Christianity as to what we are to focus on. Regarding the lost the bible primarily focuses on preaching to them. In regards to praying we find a great majority of the scriptures exhorting us to pray for the Saints. I have a feeling this is backwards in many churches. If the saints are worshiping God, walking in love towards each other, praying for each other, and preaching to the lost...God will add to His Church.

Just my 2cent. God Bless....



 2010/4/2 23:09









 Re: pray!!!!!!!

We need to pray for the unity of the body of Christ birthed out of prayer or the anointing. Which is the best form of evangelism according to John 17:20-26? We had better pray that the body of Christ wake up perches salve for their eyes and oil for their jars less they be swept away by the powerful delusion?????

 2010/4/2 23:12
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Scott,





Quote:
Are you saying we are to pray for the savlation of the whole world?




I'm saying we ought to love the whole world and all the men in it. And yes, I do express my desire to God that every person on earth would be saved, whether it is useless to do so or not, as much as I suppose it was of no avail for Christ to weep over Jerusalem whom He fortold would be destroyed, yet He did it anyway, or to teach and to keep Judas in His company, or to do so many miracles in the presence of the people who would not beleive, or to heal 10 lepers when only one would return, or to speak to a certain young ruler who would go away from Him sad, because he himself had great posessions.


Scott, I would rather be bound to express my heart to God in prayer whether or not the desire that issues forth can be answered yes or no, than to constrain those desires to only what I can find a direct and explicit commandment for.





If the Lord Jesus has commanded me to love everyone. He has commanded me to pray for them also, or how else can love them?

Yes, I can speak to them about God and I can speak to God about them also. I think that both of those are seen in Proverbs 31:8-9. But especially to plead their cause. Like a friend coming to his other friend for bread, because he has nothing of his own to provide for his guest.


I think you have made some excellent points though. And if we can put this altogether, we can have so much more reason for our need, to pray without ceasing.

God bless you too brother and thank you for your prayers as much as you may remember.



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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2010/4/2 23:29Profile





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