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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Condemnation

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 Condemnation

There is; therefore now, no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Why? Our sin was judged and condemned in Christ, and because we are in Christ we have ALREADY been judged and condemned for our sin. We died...just as the law said we should - the wages of sin is death, but we have also been raised from the dead, in Christ. Its done. Its over. It is finshed! He now deals with us as sons and daughters.

 2010/3/31 10:11
daniel-
Member



Joined: 2005/8/25
Posts: 130
Germany

 Re: Condemnation

Amen,

I am believing more and more the very few christians live in the glory of perfect acceptance and love in Christ. We all seem to strive to somehow earn something with God, secretly. When we really begin to enter into this revelation by experience it will change everything. We will be free! But it needs humility to receive the unconditional love of God because it means that NO FLESH CAN GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE.

Daniel

edit: I know that many deeply "spiritual" christians are secretly offended at this because it touches their phariseical pride. I speak of experience. But brothers, stop striving, lay your self-rightouesness down and rejoice in the freedom of Jesus!


_________________
Daniel Sahm

 2010/3/31 10:55Profile









 Re:

I was and am still one of those self-righteous brothers.

But God is faithful because He says the Kingdom of God is like a garden right....He is the Husbandman and he will break up the fallow ground of our self-righteousness by letting us suffer with our sin a bit. Then when the ground is all broken up, He can plant the incorrubtible seed of the Gospel in our hearts. We then can finally recieve it. We will not look to our own righteousness, our own work, but His. And His work WILL produce fruit in us. That is how the kingdom of God works.

 2010/3/31 11:34
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Condemnation

Quote:
Mahoney:
Our sin was judged and condemned in Christ

No, our sin was not condemned in Christ. The Scripture says that it was condemned in the flesh (Rom 8:3) and it was not judged at all; praise God.

Quote:
and because we are in Christ we have ALREADY been judged and condemned for our sin.

We have not been judged yet, nor were we condemned by God yet (we will never be condemned by God... unless we fall away).
We will not be condemned by God, but we must condemn ourselves befor God to justify Him in his judgment of our sin. When we do this, condenm ourselves, admetting our past sinfulness, He is faithful and just to forgive us those sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Romans 14:10-12 “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat...so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.”
2 Corinthians 5:10 “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

 2010/3/31 12:22Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1989
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Romans 8:3 is talking about the fact that Jesus came in the likeness of our sinful flesh and bore our sin in His own flesh. He became flesh and blood for the purpose of bearing sin in the stead of man (flesh and blood). Our sin was condemned in Christ in that Christ lived and died on this earth in the flesh. 1 Cor. 15:21, Hebrews 10:1-12, Philipians 2:7-8.

It is not that we ourselves have been judged or condemned already. It is that our condemnation, our judgment so to speak, was born by Christ in His own body. I am not judged or condemned though I deserved it because I have now taken on the righteousness of God in Christ. Because I have received the gift of salvation by grace through the blood of Jesus, I am no longer condemnable. Praise God!!!!




_________________
Travis

 2010/3/31 16:53Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It is not that we ourselves have been judged or condemned already. It is that our condemnation, our judgment so to speak, was born by Christ in His own body. I am not judged or condemned though I deserved it because I have now taken on the righteousness of God in Christ. Because I have received the gift of salvation by grace through the blood of Jesus, I am no longer condemnable. Praise God!!!!




Though I would not disagree with your commentary. I would say that the scripture says that we "have been crucified with Christ"...so we died. The law required our life because of our disobedience, and in Christ, we died. He was judged, condemned (which means - a judgement against) the Justice of God was satisfied.

It is not that we are no longer condemnable because, in fact, we are. We are not yet perfect. We are not yet sinless. We can no longer be condemned (judged for our sin) because, in Christ, our sin has already been judged,(as you stated) and God does not believe in double-jeopardy. Its over!

 2010/4/1 23:53









 Re: Condemnation

It is hoped this is detailed enough, and not so choppy so this will help. There could be something wrongly stated. If so, you who know better, correct accordingly.




We have not been judged already in Christ Jesus neither was Jesus condemned for sin. Jesus was justified, and His ressurection proves this. We are Justified in Jesus and are not condemned because of His finished work on the cross.

Your own sins 'can' judge and kill you. All sin is judged in the flesh, the end result being, if indeed we are carnal -'in the flesh'- is death: Jas. 1:14-15 / Heb. 10:26-27 / Num. 32:23. As well, we 'can' stand under a verdict of 'condemned', Rom. 3:10-12.

Jesus has been judged in the flesh for the sins of all, and because he is not guilty, He shall judge all mankind.
Jn. 5:22;8:15-16

The question is whether we are willing to share in his death and burial. When we take part in Him and recieve discipline, to that extent we recieve His Grace to walk in the new life. Gal. 6:14-15 / II Cor. 5:15,17 /
Hebrews 12:
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Life in Christ is just that. Consider what He went through as God's only Son, and do not be surprised when the world persecutes you walking in Him. Do not be surprised when as His child you are disciplined.

-------------------------------------------------------
Really, it's an all or nothing proposition:
Jn. 6:53-56

I Cor 11:
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
(SIN IS JUDGED IN THE FLESH)

These passages are not talking about the physical bread and cup. They speak about walking in the New Covenant, with our brothers and sisters towards salvation in the world. It is a My life for your life proposition. To take on Jesus life, you surrender your own.
Jn. 15:13
(the word for love here is 'agape', which contrary to popular notions does not mean either "the God kind of love" nor "to give without expecting in return". Those are the results of this kind of love and not the actual definition. These are true, but they limit us in our perspective and understanding of what this love really is. Agape actually means "to live and breath for someone other than ourself.")

It's all about His blood and body: Rom. 5:9-10

Living and breathing in Jesus, our sins are not just covered (atoned for); but, they are remitted (past, present and future, the slate of our lives wiped clean). This is appropriated and maintained through resting all of our confidence in Him.
Heb. 9:27-28


As previously stated, All sin is judged in the flesh, the end result, which we face, if indeed we are carnal-in the flesh- is death (Jas. 1:14-15 & Heb. 10:26-27) . If we remain fixed in Christ, we need not wonder-(which seems a virtual impossiblility for me and all believers i have known), because we all will die. Yet, it is not just a matter of us being in Christ. He lives and abides in us and he will never leave us nor forsake us, Rom. 5:2, Col. 1:27 / Mt. 28:20, Heb. 13:5

This situation of dying need not be the case, which takes us to the results of transformation in Romans 8.

Here Paul reiterates what he formerly detailed in Rom. 5-7, adding the fact that if we live the resurrected life (aka: walking in the Spirit) in Christ Jesus, there is therefore now no condemnation.
(it is conditional> Note: "who walk not after the flesh,..." in Rom. 8:1)


We deny ourselves and take up our cross daily
following in His example, Lk. 9:23,
and walking in the Spirit (of Jesus) is the result.
Gal. 2:20

O.K.?

Now, of what Paul is actually telling us in Romans 5-7, from the review in Romans 8, hitting just the high points:


We reckon our old self:
Crucified, dead, and buried.
This is so we can walk in the New Life Christ provides.
Rom. 8:13-14,17


Justification and condemnation are not statements of our human condition. Justification and condemnation are verdicts, much like a judge in our era slamming down the gavel and proclaiming "not guilty" or "guilty", respectively.

God the Father does not judge those who are in Christ because Christ is not guilty. If we are part of His body, His blood has justified us... The Father looks at us and sees Jesus.

All judgement will be handed to Jesus at the end of this age, and all mankind will be judged by God, in our own bodies.

[This is the reason for 2 judgements...Those who are in Christ and those who are not... and this issue opens up a whole new can of worms, so we'll leave the ref. verses out.]

Let's just consider the issue of this thread.

Heb. 10:26-27,28-29,30-31
Prov. 3:7

(one issue that many confuse in relation to all this is the acts of sin -v.s.- the sin nature. We have been set free from the nature to sin, however, we can still walk back into it's bondage. Our sins are what have been remitted, and are not accounted to us. Having freely recieved this salvation, we are recieved into God's family. Many think it is a Christian's sins, or sin nature that cuts them off from God. Not so! How can that be if you are in Christ? It is a Christians failure to continue in communication/communion that breaks a steady growing relationship with Him. God's still present for you with your very best interests at heart... so do not turn away. Both the nature to sin and the acts of sin can steal your faith(fulness).

CIAO!

Everybody wants to go to heaven;
but, nobody wants to die.


Gregg

p.s. We are saved.
We are being saved.
We will be saved.

Edited: for scripture references and two incomplete paragraphs

 2010/4/5 16:45
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Condemnation

I would like to quote something Poul Madsen wrote on these verses we are looking at in this thread...

Note, though, that the apostle does not say that God sent His Son in sinful flesh, for there was no sin in the last Adam; but chooses the expression "in the likeness of sinful flesh" to stress that the Son of God became fully and completely a man, subject to human conditions, and so went into the area ruled over by sin and death to conquer them in their own home ground. The apostle adds: "and for sin" and by His sacrificial death "condemned sin in the flesh". The thought is that those who are in Christ Jesus cannot be under condemnation, for the sin which would condemn them has itself been condemned by the cross, so that its former slaves have now been set free from its tyranny. This is what God has done for those who are "in Christ Jesus".

Paul pictures sin and man as two adversaries in a court of law. The Judge is God and so the sentence is not open to appeal. Man is represented by the Man Christ Jesus, who came in the likeness of sinful flesh, was exposed to all the attacks of sin, but completely triumphed. All sin's demands upon man are therefore rejected. The sentence pronounced is that man is acquitted while sin is condemned. The sentence goes against sin: it is condemned. Christ, however, is completely exonerated: He is guiltless. It therefore follows that there can be no condemnation for those who are in Him...

In accord with this, his words in verse 4 about God condemning sin in the flesh, do not speak of the ordinance of the law being fulfilled by us, but rather in us "who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit". Note the evangelical form of the words! He does not write that the demand of the law is fulfilled by us if we do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Such a statement would cast man back upon himself and disturb him with doubts and fears. The evangelical fact is that we no longer live after the flesh (v.9. See also 7:5), and therefore, thanks to the work of Christ for us, we do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit. This method of expression avoids turning the reader in upon himself and makes him glad and confident as he walks in simple faith and confidence in the Lord. Everything from beginning to end is the work of God for him in Christ Jesus. That is the gospel!

In Christ,

Ron



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Ron Halverson

 2010/4/5 18:22Profile





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