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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : John Piper to Feature Rick Warren at 2010 Desiring God

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

I personally am not against rick warren or others. I believe this is a great thing and could really be a way to see his ministry and influence used for the true gospel.

I have mercy and acceptance to all the preachers of false gospels that want to change their ways!

"maybe" even rick warren will be on sermonindex one day!


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2010/3/31 18:58Profile









 Re:

Hey Greg,

Who wouldn't want to see preachers of a false gospel change their ways? I listened to the audio and couldn't find anything that would suggest that Rick was wanting to change his ways. Did I miss something?

I'm not sure how this could be a great thing. Of course the Lord can use anything to bring someone to repentance. But there should be some discernment... there's a difference in calling someone to repentance compared to giving that person a place in the pulpit which carries some weight of authority. When has giving a preacher of a false gospel a place of authority to speak at a conference been accepted as a means to influence their ministry with the true gospel?

Maybe a preacher of a false gospel could speak at the next revival conference? You just never know how they might be influenced!!



 2010/3/31 22:15
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Who wouldn't want to see preachers of a false gospel change their ways?



I am curious about this comment.

The Gospel is that Jesus Christ has come, died and risen for sinners. I don't think that Rick Warren would deny this.

Now we may take issue with his ideas on sanctification, or what the Christian life is after this, but to call him the preacher of a false Gospel?

I really don't get how so many can come against him for what he teaches, or his methods when they aren't much different than that of many of the 'revivalists' heralded by many.

Altar calls and that sort of thing are straight from men like Booth and Finney, so to decry one while overlooking it in others is a bad practice.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2010/3/31 23:19Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The Gospel is that Jesus Christ has come, died and risen for sinners. I don't think that Rick Warren would deny this.



Neither would the Pope, Todd Bently, Benny Hinn, ..ect..ect. They would all affirm those truths.

Did you read the original article posted by Greg?

Quote:
Altar calls and that sort of thing are straight from men like Booth and Finney, so to decry one while overlooking it in others is a bad practice.



I'm not sure anyone said this was about altar calls.

 2010/3/31 23:36
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
I'm not sure anyone said this was about altar calls.



True, so let's flesh out just what the issue is with Warren. I am not a Warren defender, I am just curious about what the false gospel he preaches is.

I would take issue with the fact that he teaches a confusion of Law and Gospel, or justification by sanctification, but that is not the issue being discussed here.

Honestly, I am so tired of the alarmist mud slinging that goes on within most circles, and the lack of prayer for these people. It seems that we are all very quick to shame a man without pointing to their precise errors.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2010/3/31 23:43Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1964


 Re: Rick Warren's false gospel

roaringlamb,

You ask, "I am just curious about what the false gospel he preaches is."

If you would know the answer to your question get the book, "Redefining Christianity - Understanding the Purpose Driven Movement" by Bob DeWaay.

Here is the link:

http://www.cicstore.org/servlet/the-1/Redefining-Christianity--dsh--Understanding/Detail

About the book

In his steady, scholarly way, Bob DeWaay demonstrates that the Gospel of Rick Warren is not a biblical call to sinners to throw down their rebel arms at the cross and embrace the salvation offered by the Lord Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the Purpose Driven Life are readers told that sinners (what an archaic term now) are under the wrath and curse of God unless they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice on the cross. Rick Warren instead retools the Gospel message to appeal to the unregenerate. He does not believe that God's purposes are declared in his revealed Word, but rather teaches that the unsaved should go on a journey of self-discovery in order to locate God's purposes for their lives.

Redefining Christianity has excellent chapters in which the author deals with Rick Warren's redefining of terms like "vision" and "commitment" and his misuse of countless Bible versions and paraphrases in trying to justify his teachings. The most important chapter in the book deals with the Gospel according to Rick Warren. The author points out that when original sin and the blood atonement are removed from the message, there is no "good news". The world is then being given a gospel that is false. It really is that serious.

Or, if you'd rather search the web for the evidence you will find plenty of it. Genuine evidence which will indict him as guilty on all counts. As stated above, "It really is that serious." It's not about 'heresy hunters' and being unloving here. It is not with glee but with grief that I and others I know publically rebuke this man and men(and women)like him before all.

Here are just a couple of links to that end:

http://www.lanechaplin.com/2008/01/rick-warren-vs-gospel.html

http://www.puritanfellowship.com/2008/09/rick-warrens-false-purpose-gospel-by.html

Defending the Gospel against those who should be,

Bless God...Worship God.


 2010/4/1 0:34Profile
openairboy
Member



Joined: 2003/9/22
Posts: 85


 Re:

Listening to Piper's audio, I find it interesting. I am disappointed that Piper would bring him in, but like that he is trying to force the guy to get some cards on the table. Perhaps it will be good for Rick.

I disagree w/ Piper re: Warren's "pragmatism"...he is a pragmatist to the core.

 2010/4/1 0:39Profile
Lawevangelis
Member



Joined: 2004/10/9
Posts: 97
Justin, TX

 Re:

I am with Greg on this one. Yes, Rick Warren has a lot of problems with his gospel and his understanding of doctrine. Yes, he has led people astray. But people can change under the preaching and teaching of the Word. There is abundant evidence that Warren is under the teaching of Jonathan Edwards and that is some good seed if the heart has good soil.

How many of you have prayed for Rick Warren as passionately, or with as much time as you criticize him?

There ought to be a moratorium on blogging about this and a prayer vigil enacted for Rick Warren. If we were half as spiritual as we think we are here, I think we would pray for Warren and\or fast on his behalf. I suspect that even the Arminians will act like Calvinists on this issue and ignore a call to pray for Warren. If this is true, what does that say about our love?

Blessings,

Jon






_________________
Jon Speed

 2010/4/1 0:42Profile









 Patrick

you wrote:

Quote:
Honestly, I am so tired of the alarmist mud slinging that goes on within most circles, and the lack of prayer for these people. It seems that we are all very quick to shame a man without pointing to their precise errors.



but look at this way, they got to have something to do. Religion is fun, you get to feel that burning righteous indignation, the feeling of "I'm standing on the word", or "I'm a watchman on the wall". Also the feeling of holding a stone in my hand to "wield god's wrath for he has called me to defend his honor". its a delicious feeling for religionists, that feeling of superiority, self righteouness, just masking the dark heart of man, his murderous violent selfish unloving urges, his hiding his true heart with theo-speak, the outside veneer all shiny, surface so bright, the package immaculate, white-washed.

But inside, stinking rotten bones.

This horror is not new, Elijah was chased from one end of Israel to another, Jeremiah was dumped into a pit of mud, Eli thought a weeping broken hearted Hannah was a drunk, while his own sons, "clergymen" were just thieving rotten wastrels. i bet they looked good to the rank and file of those days religionists, but they were scum and hypocrites.

The adulteress brought before Jesus, ready to be stoned, oh ...those men wanted to see her skull broken open and brains splattered on the ground, they longed for that, they were 'righteous' men..oh yes, and they wanted that thrill to cover and mask their darkness of heart, and Jesus Messiah saved this broken woman.

and of the men who slapped and mocked him, both Jew and Roman, they were doing "right", after all this "nobody from Nazareth" was claiming to be God....HE DESERVES IT, doesnt He? Its fun to mete out "divine punishment", just a thrill, because it distracts you from confronting the real issue, one's own dark heart, thats what makes religion fun. thats what makes theological arguments fun, it allows you to spend idle time between boring moments of life on this cruel violent, unloving sin soaked world.

God sees all, He sees the Sheep, he sees the Goats. oh buddy the Day of the Lord will be awesome and frightful, the winnowing process fraught with peril, who can stand it?

RELIGION KILLS, Jesus saves, amen.

neil

 2010/4/1 0:51
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1964


 Re: Warren's false gospel

Lawevangelis,

You state,"There ought to be a moratorium on blogging about this and a prayer vigil enacted for Rick Warren."

Please direct us to the verse or verses in Scripture where we're called to hold prayer vigil's for false prophets or false teachers, or any who promote and/or proclaim a false gospel. Titus exhorts us to, "Be rejecting a divisive [or, heretical] person after a first and second warning,knowing that such [a person] has been corrupted and is sinning, being self-condemned. (Tit. 3:10,11)

You further state, "There is abundant evidence that Warren is under the teaching of Jonathan Edwards and that is some good seed..."

I don't see the connection even if there were one as you go on to state the following, "I suspect that even the Arminians will act like Calvinists on this issue and ignore a call to pray for Warren."

You ought to re-evaluate your own words as well as your own spirituality as you indict whole groups of men. As much as I disdain labels, you've contradicted yourself in your previous paragraph about Jonathan Edwards being good seed as you then go on to insult Calvinists. Jonathan Edwards was a staunch Calvinist.

Who's call is it to pray for Warren, yours or God's when you say,"...ignore a call to pray for Warren".

You then connect this to that,"...what does that say about our love?" As if to say by this that our love is lacking. Do you see the manipulation in your words? Your attempt to incur guilt by your reasoning is merely manipulative humanism cloaked in rhetorical garb.

Read the prophets and apostles which are the foundation for all and any building. Whether that building have to do with the building up of the saints in love or of the Truth as it is in Jesus.

Love the Truth
Walk in Truth
Obey the Truth

The Spirit of Truth
has given us
The Gospel of Truth
of the Son
Who is the Truth

John 1:14
John 1:17

 2010/4/1 1:43Profile





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