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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Annihilationism by Greg Boyd

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MickC
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Joined: 2011/5/5
Posts: 1


 Re:

The wages of sin is death; the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus. Romans 6:23
This death is eternal (i.e. you do not come back to life)
Surely if the punishment for sin is eternal torment in hell, Jesus did not take our punishment on himself?
He did go to Hades but not for eternity.
Acts 2:27 (Amplified Bible)
27 For you will not abandon my soul, leaving it helpless in Hades (the state of departed spirits).
If eternal punishement in the Hell, was the requirement according to God’s justice how is that requirement met through Jesus?

 2011/5/5 1:32Profile









 Re:

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Hebrews 9:14)

 2011/5/5 3:33
looserchapel
Member



Joined: 2011/2/23
Posts: 58
Brest, France

 Re:

Quote:
This death is eternal (i.e. you do not come back to life)



No, this death is eternal I.E it lasts forever... what is death?

Seriously, the doctrine of Annihilationsim which purpose (and a 'good-minded' purpose i'd say) is to "soften" the gospel fails in the very ground it wanted to make its strength: that Hell is not eternal.

- If Hell is not eternal, and the wicked will just "disappear", why keep preaching the Gospel??
- If Hell is not eternal, then the sinners out there have "hope" because some DO know they will go to hell
- If Hell is not eternal what about Rev 20:10, Luke 16...

Now, annihilationist said that Hell makes the Gospel not so Good news, I'd say that the eternity of Hell DOES make the Gospel a GOOD NEW, with annihilationism you are left with a "non existence" choice, in which billions of unbelievers will surely rush, thus despising the blood of Jesus Christ shed on Calvary...


***EDIT**** last question, why did Jesus talk more about Hell than He did about heaven?? A warning against punishment and then non existence is almost pointless for me...

In my mind, it's quite clear Heaven is the perfect picture of GOd's grace, love for the redeemed (Psalms 103), Hell is the perfect representation of God's righteousness.

Is God much more into love than He is into righteousness?? what about Psalms 97 "righteousness and justice ARE the FONDATION of His throne"

Some say that the idea of Eternal Hell is from the western world, I'd say the idea of Annihilationism too... and it is the effect of the "all caring and all loving God" concept...


_________________
Lalaina

 2011/5/5 3:52Profile
itg3712
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Joined: 2008/10/4
Posts: 67


 Re:

Contrary to Annihilationism:

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11)

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46)

"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."(Mark 9:44, 46, 48)

Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758) reasoned that sin against an Infinite God is an infinite offense.

Also, please see:

Jesus: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luke 13:24)

While it is good if many are motivated to turn to God by being attracted to His beauty and power and excellence, it is also valid that many are motivated to strive to enter the narrow gate and to walk the narrow way to avoid eternal torments.


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g

 2011/5/5 7:44Profile
Veronica226
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Joined: 2010/2/3
Posts: 144
Montana

 Re: Annihilationism by Greg Boyd

I would also like to add this Scripture, Revelation 14:9-11:

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

This seems to say that they will be tormented in the PRESENCE of Jesus. It kind of throws our idea of hell being away from the presence of God on its head. I'm not even sure hell could exist without God there sustaining it at least to some measure.

Just my 2 cents.


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Veronica

 2011/5/5 16:49Profile
gazzer
Member



Joined: 2011/4/30
Posts: 99


 Re:

can you gyes recall ,,jesus him self saying ,there will be a resarection of the just and an a resarection
of damnation


how do the inilationasts interpret resarection,of damntion


being destroyed doesnt mean non existant does it

what happens to somthing like a car that is desroyed ,or anything that is destroyed ,,,,,it changes aperances ,but still exists ,, to be destroyed in hell ,does not in anyway mean to not exist in hell

resarection ,,,,,,what does that mean ,,,,the soul will be brought back in to the phisical body ,which has nerves ,and feels pain or joy ,

the resarection of damnation ,,one will be brought back to live in a phisical body ,the soul will be reunited with the body ,,to recieve the damnation jesus promised those who would not repent ,and the smoke of this torment torment rise up for ever

the beasts and the fasle prophert will be as the bible says cast alive in to the lake of fire

there is no getting around all the verses in the bible that speak of this type of punishment

i see people nomaly ignore ceraint verse,wile misrepresenting other verses

which also opens up the door way for logicly ,treating other parts of scripture in the same way


the reason why jesus could take eturnal punishment upon him self ,and soke up the wrath of god ,,was because he was god ,he is the eturnal word who was god and was with god ,the bible says all things were created by him ,all things seen and unseen ,,,,,,jesus created hell and the lake of fire him self ,,,,,the bible says ,all things where created by him ,and in him do all things exist

it is not that hard for the son the soke up he wrath of god ,,,but if you beleiev the son is an angle ,,then i see your problem

 2011/5/9 1:31Profile
gazzer
Member



Joined: 2011/4/30
Posts: 99


 Re:

hey i want angush, how are you going brother

what we need to rember about out friends like scott

is many dont get to her the gosple ,becasue they have allready supressed the knowlage of god ,that god hs givern them ,romans reveles this

to a point where god is not under obligation to offer them what they in his forknowlge will reject ,,just as they did the reject his invisable atubutes ,wich as is writtern , is cleary seen by those things which he hs made even his eturnal power and god head,so we are with out excuse


god doesnt need to offer some people that grace you have been givern ,knowing they will reject it and maby be even worse of then before

but that should never stop us offering the gosple to all men ,because we are not god and we dont know who will reject or recieve we dont know who are the elect of god ,,,,,,,,,,

people defile there concence and supress the knowlage of god in willing unrigheousness ,,,and desever to seperated from god ,,because of willing ignorance

there no poor sinners out there that are going to be sent to hell againsts there will ,they will not want to be with god in heaven,wher there is holyness

they would rather be with there sinfull friends in hell

when sinners die ,,they dont all of a sudden ,become bornagain,and want to be with god ,,they stay they way they are

they supressthe truth of god ,exchange it for a lie ,and want to stay like that ,even hating holyness ,they find it absultly boring,,,and they dont change when they die

if they dont want holyness ,now thay wont want it in the next life

many many people taste holyness in this life ,and still choose sin over holyness,,,,,this will not change when they pass away from the earth

the idea of submission to god ,,is destution,to many self worshiping idolarters. they love there sin and want to stay in it ,,,god cant do any more for many people

the way they rejected christ and the aposals ,is evedence ,

this is what they will do as well when the time comes to see jesus and the apostals again

there is a narrow path ,and a wide path ,,peopel choose the wide,, over the narrow , it is there own falt brother ,,just keep praying and preaching believing god will save those who come to him .who he elected to come to him


god will save his elect

 2011/5/9 1:56Profile
bbqjason
Member



Joined: 2011/5/15
Posts: 1


 Re:

Quote:
it is also valid that many are motivated to strive to enter the narrow gate and to walk the narrow way to avoid eternal torments.



Do you mean as an initial motivation?

Or do you mean an individual can merit salvation by making a deal with God? A trade of service for heaven. Would such an individual really want to spend eternity in God's presence? Would God permit such a union?

Sorry, but I don't clearly understand what you meant. I strongly believe that unless a person loves God with all their heart, soul, and mind, they will not be gifted eternity with Him. IOW, there is no "I love myself and I want a hell insurance policy".

You may agree, just wanting to understand.



 2011/5/15 21:04Profile





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