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Cherubim
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Joined: 2010/3/17
Posts: 3
United States

 Am I the only one here who is against Calvinism?

I heard a Calvinist pastor said one day that the people who haven't heard the Gospel are not chosen by God. My response is how can a person have faith without the gospel being preach to them?


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jean cherubin

 2010/3/18 17:08Profile
utilizer001
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Joined: 2008/2/15
Posts: 83
Oregon

 Re: Am I the only one here who is against Calvinism?

I seriously ask you to listen to this message by Keith Daniel.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=19110&commentView=itemComments]The Tight Rope Walker[/url]

The time is now for us to stop hating and attacking each other. God was worked mightily through Calvinists, Arminians, and men like Finney.

Attacking each other will not bring revival. We must be of one concerted mind, that God get the glory He's due. Let us put aside the pettyness, meet in the common ground, and pray for God to do a mighty work like we've never seen before.

Jason


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Jason Smith

 2010/3/18 17:49Profile
mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Amen brother Jason!


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/3/18 18:12Profile
boG
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Joined: 2008/5/21
Posts: 349
Las Vegas, NV

 Re: Am I the only one here who is against Calvinism?

The Tight Rope Walker by Keith Daniel is a useful exhortation; it is worth listening to. Although I could bring a few critiques against some of the things he says, yet for the most part he is walking that 'tight rope'.

Quote:
[size=12]I heard a Calvinist pastor said one day that the people who haven't heard the Gospel are not chosen by God. My response is how can a person have faith without the gospel being preach to them?[/size]


As an Arminian, I entirely agree with this pastor's conclusion. I will likely not agree with 'why' this pastor believes these people are not chosen, yet it is certainly true that those who have not the faith in the Son of God are not chosen by God.

For the hearing of the Gospel is not a necessary qualification to condemn the world. Romans 1 leaves us 'without excuse' according to the general revelation and knowledge of God and sin and judgment (see Romans 1:18-19, 32; John 16:8). Moreover, Paul gives us a most interesting teaching on this topic.

Acts 17:26-28
"and [God] made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, so that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist."

In other words, to answer that common question: what about those people in [insert place] who have never had opportunity to hear the Gospel of Jesus? Well, according to Paul, God determined where these people would be born and live and the times in which they would live "so that they would seek God."

And to add another verse to the mix, Proverbs 1:23, "Turn to my reproof, and behold, I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you."

Compare to John 14:21, "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

To summarize, those people who have never heard the Gospel of Christ have one thing in common: none of them are seeking and groping after God (Acts 17), all of them continue to refuse obedience to His general revelation (Romans 1; Proverbs 1). Therefore, in the Providence of God, they have not heard about Jesus because they have not submitted themselves to the rebuke of God. For if they had yielded to the ministry of the Holy Spirit and turned from their sin and sought after a righteousness not their own then God would have made Jesus Christ known unto them.

This is consistent to the teaching that many are 'called' but few are 'chosen'. Such that God is calling all men everywhere unto repentance (Acts 17:30), but only those who heed this call are 'chosen' to receive the end of that faith: eternal life in Christ. For it is impossible to be saved apart from true faith.


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Jordan

 2010/3/18 20:00Profile
enid
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Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2660
Nottingham, England

 Re: Am I the only one here who is against Calvinism?


What about those who have heard, and yet ...

 2010/3/19 2:37Profile









 Re: Am I the only one here who is against Calvinism?


The devil loves these controverial subjects and equally loves it when we argue about them. What a complete waste of time.

Did you know that the only reason why we argue these subjects is pride?

"I am right and you are wrong" attitude.

Look what it says about charity.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I guarantee you, if we had real love for our brethren, these stupid subjects would be the last thing on our lips to speak of.

We speak this stuff because we haven't anything else to do. We are busy bodies, running to and fro from forum to forum looking to find anyone that will agree with us. That is how denominations and splits are formed.

Spring is here and the only T.U.L.I.P's that I want to see is what comes up in my garden.

 2010/3/19 9:23
Cherubim
Member



Joined: 2010/3/17
Posts: 3
United States

 Re:

I was born in Haiti and missionaries started coming to Haiti in the 1900s which means before that nobody in Haiti have heard the Gospel, now a Calvinist might well they weren't chosen by God, Wrong! as soon the Gospel was preach in Haiti in less than 10 years, 50% of the people were reported converted. If a country or tribe has not hear of the gospel it is not because they're not chosen but because they haven't heard the Gospel. If those missionaries were Calvinist I probably would have never received the Gospel.

For those of you who say "those kind of discussions are the reason for all those denominations" well I say to you that "the reason for all those denominations are because people didn't discuss their biblical views before forming their own-opinion-based Church"


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jean cherubin

 2010/3/19 14:12Profile
bible4life
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Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1559
Locport, Illinois

 Re:

I think according to romans 1 explains about those who have not heard the gospel, they still our without excuse, but what does God truly do to those who have not heard the gospel i don't know, but i guess we can come to the conclusion that God would still be just if he sent them to hell because we are all sinners, and we are not going to hell because we don't hear the gospel but because we have sinned against almighty God. We all deserve justice from God which would be hell his perfect justice against are sins against him and God would remain just for doing so. We also have to remember that every human is dead spiritually and God is the only one who can regenerate them. What does God do for those who will never hear the gospel I don't exactly but maybe he can speak to them though no one is bringing the gospel to them.As with arminiasm and calvinsm i would say that the view that calvinism is completely wrong is just not true, their scriptures that seem to point to a calvinistic view no matter what anyone says so i would not condemn calvinists. Look at Israel being chosen out of all the nations of the world as God's people, look at in the time of Elijah when it seemed be only him who would follow God , but then you read that God had kept a certain amount of people who would not reject them. I also would say look at Romans ch. 9 and also the gospel of John where Jesus clearly says my sheep hear my voice, you don't hear my voice because your not of my sheep. Or you look in Acts 18 where those who were ordained believed. Their our more scriptures to show you, but my point to condemn calvinism as this site does so much is i think being ignorant of scripture, i would also say the same with some calvinists about other verses. Lets seek after God and not cut down certain beliefs in the christian faith unless their is clear evidence their heresy.


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John Beechy

 2010/3/19 15:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:
For those of you who say "those kind of discussions are the reason for all those denominations" well I say to you that "the reason for all those denominations are because people didn't discuss their biblical views before forming their own-opinion-based Church"

The gist that I was saying in my post is to what profit is it to argue vehemently (to which I have seen brethren in heated debates)over such doctrines?

My leanings lean toward Calvinism. I rarely share that because it makes no never mind to anyone but myself. If someone where to ask me if we have "free choice", than I would have an answer in saying, "no we do not". But if someone doesn't believe that, I would immediately drop the subject because it's not worth arguing about. I personally do not see it a fundamental teaching. It's like the Trinity. It's not in the bible, but to someone else it's in the bible. Shall I clobber my brother who can't see what I see? Certainly not! If by all my persuasion don't convince him, to what profit did it do me to argue with him? And just because they don't receive my doctrine does that mean I should separate myself from him? Sadly many do. So it goes right back to loving my nieghbour. Jesus would say to me, "leave it alone". A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.

 2010/3/19 22:28





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