| Luis Palau - Your thoughts Please|
Dear SI friends,
Luis Palau will be doing a crusade or some type of big meeting in my city this summer and many of the local churches are gearing up for the event. I understand that Luis Palau is listed here but have not found very much of what he has taught available elsewhere. Could some of you with experience in his teachings, doctrines and life let me know a little more about him.
I have heard that he is considered to be the "Billy Graham of South America" but also that if all those who were "saved" in Central and South America were added up it would be something like the current population five times over.
I have been asked to assist my local church in this matter but I am tentative about it. If I hadn't been asked I wouldn't even think about going to meetings like this because something irks me about them. If someone like Bill McLeod came to town, I would be all behind them.
There is another aspect to this. The head of the project I will be working with in Central Asia thinks that being involved in this would be a good way to prove my integrity in loving the Gospel to this large church I am associated with. Generally I have been pretty quite, keeping my involvement in the church limited to my small group and a few interactions with the head pastor. About a year ago the Lord had me give "The Spirit of Truth" by Art Katz to the pastor who responded to it as an intellectual study rather than a Word the Lord was speaking into his life (for the third time, he told me in his reply).
I am involved with this church because the Lord has commanded me to stay. If He let me to a more Spirit lead church I would gladly go. (For those who have read my other posts, the Lord does have me involved in two churches right now so don't be confused.)
The fact that this involvement is prompted as means to prove my sincerity potentially to raise support from the church seems liked mixed motives to me. The core principle of the group I am with is INTEGRITY as in having every part in agreement, as in spiritual, social, physical, cultural, etc. I should not blast them here for this but it stinks of a lack of integrity.
So I guess I have given you several points to respond on. If Luis Palau is a Godly man and not a master of histrionics, I would be glad to humble myself and serve in this because I have been instructed. But if he is just talking head and conversion card promoter- I'd rather not get in 50 miles of the man.
| 2010/3/16 2:06||Profile|
| 2010/3/16 3:54||Profile|
| Re: Thank You|
Thank for pointing me to this. The link seems to be full of truth and terms I am not overly familiar with though I do gather the gist of it all. Speaking in love seemed absent too.
I think I need a little more info and through this there are some real personal heart issues I need to deal with.
Any other comments on either side, Palau or myself are welcome.
| 2010/3/16 22:28||Profile|
| Re: Luis Palau - Your thoughts Please|
Maybe Elvis Was Just a Carnal Christian
By Todd Friel
Imagine trying to lovingly confront a high profile evangelical to share your concern that his Gospel presentation wasn't Biblical. Gulp. That is precisely what I did with Luis Palau several years ago prior to one of his mega-events.
I suggested he was giving the cure without explaining the disease of sin. Mr. Palau informed me that everyone has an overwhelming burden of guilt and it is not necessary for him to preach about their need for forgiveness.
Suspecting he might say that, I handed him a c.d. with a montage of people we interviewed on the street. We asked strangers, "Do you have an overwhelming burden of guilt?" The responses ranged from condescending disdain to outright laughter.
While Mr. Palau was very nice to me, he ultimately patted me on the head and said, "Be careful that you don't fall into that Lordship salvation trap. Christians can be carnal."
Carnal Christianity is the concept that says: you can live like the world and still be a Christian. It also teaches that sanctification can come some time after a person signs a car
asks Jesus into his hea
I mean gets saved.
Later that night at the festival, Mr. Palau's message included two profanities and proclamations like, "If Elvis had become a Christian, he would have been a rock star, but his life wouldn't have turned out so bad." He also informed the audience that if they would simply ask Jesus into their hearts, "The party starts right now." A woman from my church who just buried her seven year old son almost rushed the stage
and not to sign a card.
His Gospel presentation, as our British friends would say, was "a complete dog's breakfast."
It is no surprise that the follow up statistics to crusades are so tragic. The backslider rate (or Carnal Christian rate) hovers around 90%. It seems that Carnal Christianity and Gospel presentations that don't include sin, righteousness and judgment go hand and hand. In order to explain those statistics, the minister must:
1. Admit the preaching is inadequate and without Holy Spirit power.
2. Alter theology to explain how a decision-maker can name the name of Christ but live like
Option one is out of the picture. And so it is, since the early 20th century, modern day evangelicalism (thanks to Lewis Sperry Chafer and the Scofield Bible) has been proclaiming the oxymoron known as Carnal Christianity.
The support text for Carnal Christianity is I Cor.3:1-5. "And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
Paul was warning the ignorant, sectarian Corinthians that they should not be divided into cliques. That's it. This text does not suggest that born-again believers can live like pagans. Paul was introducing them to new theology, not giving them license to sin.
With all credit to Ernest C. Reisingers "A Carnal Christian," here are eight reasons why Carnal Christianity should be rejected.
1. In I Cor.1:2-5, Paul addressed his audience as "sanctified in Christ". So are they
sanctified or carnal? In I Cor.2, Paul divides men into "natural" and "spiritual," i.e. un
saved and saved. By labeling some Christians as "carnal," Paul would be introducing a
third classification of humans. Furthermore, this would violate every other presentation in
Scripture that there are only two classes of people: children of God or children of wrath.
2. The new covenant of salvation includes two inseparable blessings at salvation:
justification and sanctification. Carnal Christianity teaches you will be justified upon
conversion, but sanctification is optional.
3. The Bible presents two types of faith: saving faith and spurious (false) faith (Lk. 8:13).
Carnal Christianity does not recognize spurious faith. What a false assurance we allow
the unregenerate to possess if we allow them to think their faith is valid when the Bible
teaches it might be a false conversion.
4. Carnal Christianity excludes a necessary component of salvation: repentance. The
unconverted sinner can just "ask Jesus into his heart" with no requirement to forsake sin.
5. How does a person know he is saved? Fruit in keeping with repentance. We are told to
examine ourselves to see if we are in the truth. What a beautiful gift to the believer. If we
can be carnal, how can we know we are saved? Carnal Christianity robs us of
6. Carnal Christianity may be a relatively new name, but it is merely a new moniker for an
old false teaching: anti-nomianism. "Should we go on sinning that grace might more
abound?" Carnal Christianity says, "Sure."
7. "Carnal Christian teaching is the mother of many second work-of-grace errors in that it
depreciates the Biblical conversion experience by implying that the change in the
converted sinner may amount to little or nothing." Dr. Reisinger goes on to point out that
a second step is required to make a man a "spiritual Christian."
8. Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, right? (Lk.2:11) Carnal Christianity divides Jesus
and allows Him to be Savior but not Lord.
| 2010/3/16 23:56||Profile|
| Re: |
I think the message of Luis Palau is a reflection of shallow spirituality of compromised evangelicalism of today. Once the preachers emphasized more the fear of God then the love of God, today they emphasize love of God to the neglect of fear or holiness of God. It seems like the age and times we live in affects alot our theology of God unless we dont pay close attention to the Word of God and faithfully obey it.
Im sure that a sovereign God can use an evangelist like Palau to bring the gosple to the lost and be instrumental to lead them to the cross and salvation. I dont have much knowledge about Palau and his message, years ago i started his biography but i didnot finish it. I remember to have seen only for a little bit one of his crusades and to be honest it looked more like a christian rock festival, rather then a solemn gosple meeting.
To make the message more acceptable to the world many preachers lower the standard of God's word. God is love and he is holy too. Today we divide the attributes of God and preach the gosple of love but forget the wrath of God for the ungodly. As a result many church goers have a shallow understanding of who God is. And the message of 'flee from the wrath to come' is a total non-sense to post modern man when all he hears is, 'God loves you and has a plan for your life'.
A true minister of the gosple should be a genuine promoter of faith once for all delivered to the saints and of true godliness without which we cannot be Godlike. We are to judge a prophet by the his fruits and not by superficial results of his ministry. For me the genuine test and oucome of a true movement of God is holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
Sorry Jerremy if i got out of subject, my two cents advice would be follow the guide of the Holy Spirit, whether you should participate in his crusade or not.
| 2010/3/17 4:28||Profile|
| Re: |
You are welcome.
I am not familiar with the website I provided but I did read a few things on it to at least ensure that its not a website that is full of flaws as I would then be guilty of providing such a link. (I do it to whatever links I provide)
I think that the website is trying to be as objective as possible without attaching too much emotions. If that's the case, its rather difficult to be full of love. Also, I'm not saying that the way it approaches things is correct or what.
Although I'm not familiar with Luis Palau's teachings, but from what I've read so far from different sites, there are some major things such as the below taken from Todd Friel-- "I suggested he was giving the cure without explaining the disease of sin. Mr. Palau informed me that everyone has an overwhelming burden of guilt and it is not necessary for him to preach about their need for forgiveness" really worries me. This is not the only thing that worries me.
This is for me personally.
Luis Palau may be a true Christian and like all of us, he has his own weakness but personally for me, there are plenty of other preachers that I feel preach way more accurately. I rather support them and read their stuff. I rather not be involved in something which I do not feel comfortable at all unless I am sure that this is what God wants me to do and to verify it with the bible. I will not feel alright with inviting people to sermons/events where after hearing these sermons, they might think they are saved when they are not. I do not want this on my conscience knowing that what I've done is wrong.
Take your time to determine what you should do. My suggestion (from my own experience) is that if you are still not sure when the time comes for you to give an answer, then its best not to be involved. But its just this, a suggestion based on my own experience.
| 2010/3/17 4:46||Profile|
| Re: |
I took my two grandsons to his concert in the park dealy. It was like going to a fair only with a huge amount of Christians. I had never heard of him before but it was something Christian to take the boys to. The good part of it was my teenage grandson watched the skate boarder attraction they had and listened to testimony's from the skaters.Then my grandson decided to go and help tear down the construction and one of the older skaters prayed with him and led him to Jesus and I believe is still praying for him. So,in my opinion if the Lord is leading us to go somewhere He will have a good reason for us to be there. God is out of the box and can use anyone at anytime. He used a Jehovah Witness to get me into the Bible but kept me from the false doctrine. It gave me such a hunger for the Lord I had never had. My point being is God can use any situation for His glory. I went to a Benny Hinn gathering one time with three girl friends just to see for myself. My friend told me the night before that God was really going to bless me there. I was not going because I was sick at all. But with all the Christians in that auditorium worshiping the Lord-the Presence of the Lord came on me so strong I could not move.I was not on the floor nor did I go and get prayed for or any of his people touch me. It was the worship. It was time to vacate the place for lunch and I could not move. Instead of them taking me out of a wheelchair they put me in one!!! I literally could not speak nor hold my head up. The medics that were there came and took my pulse and said, she is one relaxed lady no matter she can't move! I wont tell you what conclusion I came to re: B.H. that is for you to discern. But I do know His Presence is so strong when we are worshiping Him it is hard to stand. Just think what it will be like for Eternity. I hope this will help a bit. God is a big huge, awesome God and can do anything with anyone anytime any place He chooses. Just pray we will be in the right place at the right time. All glory to God.
| 2010/3/17 17:03||Profile|