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 Re:

Hi Lysa,

No amount of words would be enough to explain this subject. Men have their ideas, and that is fine, Scripture is very scarce on the subject, and I believe it is because of what Jesus said when He said that it had not even entered into the hearts of man what God has prepared for us. If Jesus says that it has not entered into the hearts of man what lies ahead, then no one can adequately explain it. Yet this we know, we know the presence of God. And even although it is in a very limited fashion, it thrills the soul to know that to be in the unadulterated presence of the Living God is beyond what our human minds can even conprehend. And therefore no words can do any justice to this subject. Heaven is where the Lord is, hell is where He is not. The glories of heaven will only be matched in intensity by the horrors of hell. The soul that lives in the presence of God, and the soul that dwells in a place of utter hopelessness. One makes the spirit soar, the other makes the spirit shudder............brother Frank

 2010/3/14 22:59
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

In consideration of this topic, as I unfortunately do not have much time to type on this topic as much as I would like to, I would like to offer up for your consideration a Sunday school lesson I taught at church a year or two ago. It is called, "Redemption, Resurrection, and Reward."

You can listen to it at: [url=http://www.iamadisciple.com/sermons/redemption_resurrection_and_reward.mp3]http://www.iamadisciple.com/sermons/redemption_resurrection_and_reward.mp3[/url]


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Jimmy H

 2010/3/14 23:04Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3407
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: heaven and appolus


Brother appolus,

I understand what you are saying, the presence of God is heaven and just so you know, I will not have a problem dying (going to sleep) when the time comes and trusting that I will be with Him where He is!!

God bless us all as we become more like Him!!


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Lisa

 2010/3/15 8:25Profile
fieldlaborer
Member



Joined: 2009/4/20
Posts: 30


 Re:

Quote:
Heaven is where the Lord is, hell is where He is not



This statement is not correct. We read

Revelation 14:10 (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Their torment will be in the presence of the Lamb, who is the Lamb it is the Lord Jesus.

Heaven will be a real place, we will have real glorified bodies, and we will do real things that will glorify our God.

Quote:
Heaven is less a place and more a proximity



Another incorrect statement, if we have real spiritual glorified bodies, then we must go to a real place. It will be the new heavens and new earth. Christ is the firstborn of this new body, after the resurrection He came in a real body, that was freed from the constraints of our fleshly bodies. Colossians 1:18

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

The problem with many of these posts is everyone has these great ideas but no scripture to back them up. There is a lot the bible tells us about heaven, to go over every one of them would be to write a book. As I mentioned earlier on this thread the book by Randy Alcorn titled Heaven is a great read with a lot of scripture, not just someones idea. I long to go be with the Lord and spend eternity in the place He is preparing for the saints. God Bless

 2010/3/15 9:34Profile









 Re:

fieldlaborer writes........

"This statement is not correct. We read

Revelation 14:10 (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Their torment will be in the presence of the Lamb, who is the Lamb it is the Lord Jesus."

Here is a great example of a pretext.
For those who do not know, a pretext is a text isolated, ot taken out of context. The 14th chapter of Revelation is about judgment, when the Lord comes with the saints in the air He will redeem His children who did not bow the knee, receive the mark of the beast. Judgement will be poured out upon all those who are not His. The notion that the redeemed and the unredeemed will all be in heaven is, well, preposterous. Remember, there will be a great gulf between those who are redeemed and those who are not, and none shall be able to bridge it. When we suppose rightly that heaven is a real place, then likewise hell too is a real place, and the two are not the same.

"Another incorrect statement, if we have real spiritual glorified bodies, then we must go to a real place."

I never said it was not a real place. My point is that Jesus said that it had not even entered into our hearts what He has prepared for us, so it is kinda foolish to say that we know what the place itself will be like, but what we do know is that we, and all the "redeemed,' will be with our Lord and that is what makes it "heaven." ......brother Frank



 2010/3/15 10:16
fieldlaborer
Member



Joined: 2009/4/20
Posts: 30


 Re:

Once again you are making statements with no scriptural evidence. I will deal with them as you listed them.

Quote:
Here is a great example of a pretext



This verse is not taken out of context, it deals with judgment, eternal judgment in hell. We can know this by the following verse.

Revelation 14:11 (KJV)
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Words such as torment, forever and ever, as well as no rest indicate this verse and verse ten are telling us about eternal hell.

Quote:
The notion that the redeemed and the unredeemed will all be in heaven is, well, preposterous



I never said that Frank, I believe Christ, in the state He is in now, is omnipresent. We know Jesus is equal with God, has all the attributes of God. It is clear that Christ is in hell as well as Heaven. I know it is hard for many to believe that God is in Hell observing the torment of those who are there, but that is because deep down they feel that there is something wrong with the judgment of hell, so how could God be there. Every person in hell deserves it, it is the judgment of God, upon wicked man. So no Heaven and hell are not the same place, but the same God is in both. These verses clearly show that.

Quote:
so it is kinda foolish to say that we know what the place itself will be like



I don't know why you want to insist my remarks are foolish when you don't even use scripture to back your points up that God is not in hell, heaven is a proximity, and on and on. We will not know everything about Heaven, that is clear. It will be beyond our imagination. All I said was that there are many passages of scripture that give us a glimpse of what are redeemed bodies will be like, what heaven will be like, and what the new earth will be like. I don't believe we should just pull one verse out that indicates it will be beyond our imagination and ignore what the rest of the scriptures says.

Your not the final authority on this Frank, I'm not the final authority on this, The Word Of God Is. Lets stick with that and quit making erroneous statements to puff our own intellect up.

 2010/3/17 22:01Profile









 Re:

fieldlaborer writes......."The problem with many of these posts is everyone has these great ideas but no scripture to back them up." "That statement is incorrect>" "Another incorrect statement."

Just because someone disagrees with you fieldlaborer does not mean that they are unscriptural, unless you are infallible when it comes to these matters ? Let us agree to disagree? You have your notion of what heaven is, and how hell operates, that is fine. Every one of us must be fully persuaded in what we believe. It has been my observation that most of the people on SI have a pretty good Biblical knowledge although often times we come to different conclusions. Let us end on something we can both agree on, heaven will be a wonderful place for the redeemed of the Lord :) .........brother Frank

 2010/3/17 22:25
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Re:

Here are some scriptures one should consider in thinking about heaven:

Matthew 5:3,10

Matthew 5:19-20

Matthew 7:21

Matthew 8:11

Matthew 10:7

Matthew 11:11

1 Peter 1:4

Revelation 21:1-27

Personally, I anticipate being in heaven someday. I look forward to it and can hardly wait!

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2010/3/18 22:36Profile





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