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 Re:

Quote:
"This sounds like an argument for total pacifism. Actually it may be more like two or three arguments all in one."

No Benjoseph, it isn't an argument at all,[ in the contentious sense..] but simply my opinion.

oops.. I thought I wrote that to hoohoou. But anyway, I didn't mean argument in the negative sense that implies malice. I just meant a logical argument. A logical case for something. Arguments are good, the bible is full of logical arguments.

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It is simply some thoughts that I hold to about Americanism, and armed revolution as a offshoot that compliments Christian behavior.

I really wasn't trying, or will I, to prove a point. As far as "total pacifism", I see the Christian walk as something close to that. Turn the other cheek, overcome evil with good, and see to it that we are not "Brawlers"..to fight for our rights.

I don't think brawling and revolution are the same thing. Though an immoral revolution would be no better. Also, it sounds like you were saying that brawlers are people who are fighting for their rights?

Quote:
As Paul the Apostle admonishes us, that we would;

"To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men."

Titus 3:2

I agree with this. But the extent to which you are taking it implies that we shouldn't discipline children.

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Benjoseph.

uh oh

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This comment is so brazenly foolish it astounds me, and shows me that you really don't have much of a grasp on WHO Jesus is, and His character.

Possibly because you have little comprehension on who "The Lamb of God" IS, you substitute aggression and combativeness in your reactions to vent.

?

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Knowing that this will surely offend you, I apologize in advance,

?

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but I must say that you are not my enemy.


tom, I'm going to end my response here because I want to be able to discuss this topic without making the moderators feel like they need to intervene.

 2010/3/13 15:20
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

Could you define what you mean by 'respect,' when you say you respect the armed forces?

If everyone held your opinion during World War II while Hitler went crazy... what would have happened?

Revelation 21:8 But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Could you please interpret the definition of cowardly in the context of that verse for me.


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2010/3/13 17:16Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Quote:
After praying about this I have to agree with Frank.




Dear Mary, I appreciate this and some of the others also.


If there is anyway to discuss this, it is not with drawn swords. Thank you and others for your example of laying down your rights here for others.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2010/3/13 17:39Profile









 Re:

Whether Christians should fight in wars is a non-essential issue. The important thing is that we fight with each other. If the Lord did not want His servants bludgeoning one another with opinionation, He would not have invented Fundamentalism. He invented the Internet so we could debate Christian ethics without killing each other. He invented war to kill sinners. Thanks to His Servant George Bush there are 600,000 sinners dead and 4 million displaced in Iraq.

P.S. Brother Frank has the gift of prophecy.

 2010/3/13 18:18
knitefall
Member



Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 251


 Re:

Just sat through six hours of a seminar by Dr. Peter Marshall. Skeptical at first but WOW! Total win for knowledge of what it was like for men to be Under God when the Nation was created. He shows how it was not for religious freedom they came, as they had that already in Holland before coming here. The Nation was erected by God for the purpose of being an example to other nations plus for the work of God in freeing men spiritually around the globe. And his presentation got better from there. On JSM.org he will be ministering at 6 Sunday. Don't forget about the clock change either!

So this Nation was and still is important to God. Through compromise, it has become what she is today. Get the DVDs if this is for you. PS, when this was founded, it was for everyone... and the members all knew that. Thanks for the post.

 2010/3/13 18:32Profile









 Re: respect and the cowardly

IWantAnguish said to me:

Could you define what you mean by 'respect,' when you say you respect the armed forces?

If everyone held your opinion during World War II while Hitler went crazy... what would have happened?

Revelation 21:8 But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Could you please interpret the definition of cowardly in the context of that verse for me.
..........................................................

I am a Viet Nam combat veteran , of the USMC, decorated with a Purple Heart, a Cross of Gallantry..[ unit citation ], and several more medals, for my service to this country. My father also served in WW2, and was disabled in combat.[ USN ], and my older brother , Gary, lost in life while in uniform in 1970, in the Asian theatre.

I wasn't yet a born again believer at that time, [1969]. I understand the need for a strong military, as tyrants exist, and citizens must be protected from them. My own position today, though , as a servant of Christ Jesus, has changed. I cannot see joining an army to revolt against our country.


Remember that this is what this thread is about, and my comment; Armed revolution. Am I a pacifist? I try to be, but it mostly in the spiritual realm in order to lay down my life for the sake of Christ. I still own guns, and honestly, if an invader crashed into my home and threatened my innocent family; as a very last resort; I probably would shoot them. Maybe try to wound them; but stop them, for sure.


As far as Revelation 21:8 is concerned, cowardly is also translated fearful. In context, it means those who are given over to the spirit of fear, the anti-thesis to faith. To me, those who are afraid to stand in the Lord, in the face of menace, or martyrdom, or persecution would fall into this category. Oddly, I believe that it would include those who through fear of losing their life, took up arms to protect it.

Revelation 13:10
"If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints."

The patience of the saints is believing that either through life or death, the Lord is able to keep us.

 2010/3/15 13:04





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