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 Re: Abortion is MURDER.. God hates murder.

Is God just?

Do the innocent unborn burn in eternal torment only because they perished unborn?

What does it mean when the scripture talks about innocent blood?

The evil king who loved abomination.

2Kings21
5. "He sacrificed his own son in the fire, practiced sorcery and divination, and consulted mediums and spiritists.

16. Moreover, Manasseh also shed so much innocent blood that he filled Jerusalem from end to end—besides the sin that he had caused Judah to commit, so that they did evil in the eyes of the LORD.
Does God hate murder?
Deuteronomy 19:10
"Do this so that innocent blood will not be shed in your land, which the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance, and so that you will not be guilty of bloodshed."
Those who take the life of the innocent.
An abomination
Deuteronomy 19:13
"Show him no pity. You must purge from Israel the guilt of shedding innocent blood, so that it may go well with you."

The abominations.
Psalm 106:38
"They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.


Quote:by "NICK"


Scripture is clear that a child in the womb is "enstranged" and "venomous".


This idea is sick to it's core, and I cannot see anyone interpreting the Holy Writ as such, that is born again by His Holy Spirit.

This is something that a demon might say.

 2010/2/27 8:48
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Micah, I love your take on this scripture. 2 Samuel 12: 15-23. I did not think about this incident when I read this question. I often refer to this in relation to grieving over the death of a love one. This scripture ministered to me when your daughter died: we prayed fervently for her healing before and once she died, I left off praying because God has spoken and there is no changing it - got other work to do now - like call people, make funeral arrangements, etc.

Another poster showed how the scriptures are virtually silent on this question - there is no direct word on this issue apart from this incident. Since this is the case, allow me one more question: where did David get this idea that his child went to be with the LORD? It is not written in the law anywhere that I know of; never read it in the prophets, either...Is this idea not something that all Believers seem to know in their spirit, based on the mercy of God?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/2/27 9:55Profile
wind_blows
Member



Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353


 Re:


Why is it so difficult for us to just trust God and know that He has all this stuff worked out? I mean if He can love a awful, spoiled, lying, selfish sinner like me who was old enough to make choices and understand, and still send His only begotten Son then why would anyone doubt that He can care for and make provision for an unborn baby who is not able to make a choice or understand? God is good and worthy of all our trust, since nothing ever takes Him by surprise I have faith that He has this under control.

ginnyrose I like what you shared about knowing it in my spirit because of Gods mercy.

IWantAnguish there is forgiveness for your mom, pray for her and share the love of Christ with her. Use this as an opening to share Jesus.

love in Him
Ellie

 2010/2/27 12:08Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343
VCU @ Richmond, VA

 Re:

My fear comes not from believing that God is unjust...

But rather that He is just.

God shows justice to all not under the blood of Christ.

Christ suffered under the penalty of sin, and through HIM we have reconciliation with the Father.

The only way a person can come into saving knowledge with the Father is through the work of the Holy Spirit which is a gift of grace...

Thus... if Scripture is correct in that all men are sinful... and that we are saved by GRACE and not by inherent goodness, or innocence from child birth... then we cannot presume that the unborn have or have not been chosen before the foundations of the world to receive saving grace...

I would not say that all aborted babies go to heaven... I would also not say that all aborted babies go to hell... I would say that any baby that enters into heaven is according to the plan of the Father, and Christ knew these children for whom He died while on the cross, under the punishment of the Father.

For through one man sin entered the world, and through one man-God, we may enter into fellowship with the Father.


_________________
Sam Yoon

 2010/2/27 14:16Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

IWant Anguish,

Somehow this issue troubles you or else you would not have asked it here on a forum such as this. Why?

People have tried to answer your question to the best of their knowledge, yet you repulse it...why? Have you had a child aborted as well?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/2/27 14:58Profile
Giggles
Member



Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

Spurgeon on the subject:

“Among the gross falsehoods which have been uttered against the Calvinist Proper is the wicked calumny [slander] that we hold the damnation of little infants. A baser lie was never uttered. There may have existed somewhere in some corner of the earth, a miscreant”--a criminal--“who would dare to say that there were infants in hell, but I have never met with him, nor have I met with a man who ever saw such a person! We say with regard to infants, Scripture saith but little, and therefore, where Scripture is confessedly scant, it is for no man to determine dogmatically, but I think I speak for the entire body or certainly with exceedingly few exceptions and those unknown to me when I say we hold that all infants who die are elect of God and are therefore saved! We look to this as being the means by which Christ shall see of the travail of his soul to a great degree and we do sometimes hope that thus the multitude of the saved shall be made to exceed the multitude of the lost. Whatever views our friends may hold upon the point, they are not necessarily connected with Calvinistic doctrine! I believe that the Lord Jesus who said, ‘Of such is the kingdom of heaven,’ doth daily and constantly receive into his loving arms, those tender ones who are only shown and then snatched away to heaven.”


_________________
Paul

 2010/2/27 15:01Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
IWantAnguish said:
My fear comes not from believing that God is unjust...

But rather that He is just.

God shows justice to all not under the blood of Christ.

The unborn do not need the Blood of Christ because they have not sinned against Him. It would be injustice for Cod to condemn them.

Therefore,Never fear God's Justice.

Quote:
Thus... if Scripture is correct in that all men are sinful...

The Scripture is correct, however, it is the interpretations of some who are not correct.

Quote:
and that we are saved by GRACE and not by inherent goodness, or innocence from child birth.

The unborn do not need to be saved from anything. Therefore it [b]is[/b] from an inherent goodness, or innocence from child birth.

Quote:
then we cannot presume that the unborn have or have not been chosen before the foundations of the world to receive saving grace...

Yes, [b]we can presume[/b] that the unborn have or have not been chosen before the foundations of the world, but [b]not[/b] to recieve grace, for they do not need the grace which we need.

Quote:
I would not say that all aborted babies go to heaven...

I would!
Why wouldn't you?

Quote:
I would say that any baby that enters into heaven is according to the plan of the Father, and Christ knew these children for whom He died while on the cross, under the punishment of the Father.

Jesus did not need to die for the unborn, but only for sinners.
Sinners are they who choose to live in sin & emply themselves in sin.
The unborn are not these.

 2010/2/27 15:03Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I would not say that all aborted babies go to heaven... I would also not say that all aborted babies go to hell... I would say that any baby that enters into heaven is according to the plan of the Father, and Christ knew these children for whom He died while on the cross, under the punishment of the Father.



That is exactly it!

Some may, some may not, the fact is that there is just nothing in scripture to guarantee that every infant who dies, goes to heaven, otherwise God would have been able to count more than ten righteous in Sodom, and more righteous than Noah and his family in his generation.

Old Joe

 2010/2/27 15:11
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Old_Joe said:
otherwise God would have been able to count more than ten righteous in Sodom, and more righteous than Noah and his family in his generation.

God was judging Sodom for the people who are judgeable. Infants are not judgeable.
Therefore, Abraham's the concern was for they who are of age which are supposed to be righteous, but choose not to be (the judgeable).

Since they chose not to be, they are condemnable and worthy of judgment.
Infants are not of age to be judged, therefore they are not included with the multitude whom Lot was pleading for.

The infants are included in the judgment as they were in the flood, but the fact that they are not condemned eternally is the fact that they were not [b]in[/b] the judgment though they were affected by it.
Infants are in the judgment (were affected), but not condemned.

We can relate this to 9/11.
God judged America and some died. Christians who dies were in the judgment, but are not condemned with they who deny Christ.
So it is with infants in the flood and Sodom & Gomorrah.

 2010/2/27 15:32Profile
wind_blows
Member



Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353


 Re:

Quote:
I would not say that all aborted babies go to heaven... I would also not say that all aborted babies go to hell...



_____________________________________

I have no doubts that God in His mercy would extend that same mercy to those who have never been born and have never been given an chance to receive the Lord Jesus or to reject Him.

I have a sister that died before birth as well but I trust that she is in the hands of the Lord. Your comment about being pro choice makes me wonder what your motives are in this thread? Is there an issue you need help or prayer with?

Have you shared with your mom about the Lord? Have you talked to her about this and shared with her great need of the Lord?

in Him
Ellie

 2010/2/27 15:48Profile





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