| Re: |
If they go to heaven, then perhaps I'll become pro-choice. America saved 4000 souls today. Better to kill a baby than to let it live and go to hell.
I don't know if your trying to be serious or not? Perhaps you are hurting and angry? I don't know but I will be praying for you. There is no way God would ever want us to support the murder of unborn children.
Please think about what you post before doing so. The moderators of this forum have asked us to pray before we post...did you honestly pray before posting the above comment?
| 2010/2/26 19:46||Profile|
| Re: |
The word says that there is no unrighteousness with God... Romans 9:14, "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." His judgments are just, pure and true. The Lord has eyes of fire. I am personally of the opinion that if no one has the opportunity to receive the Gospel, then it would be unjust for God punish someone whom had no opportunity. However, my answer is derived from scripture, rather than being something directly promoted by scripture.
You can no more say an unborn child is going to hell from a scriptural point of view than someone can say they are going to heaven. I would venture to say that anyone on either side of the argument could develop derived doctrines about it. The scriptures, in my knowledge, have almost nothing to say about it. But I will say that to believe that God sends people to hell is double predestination, and even the staunchest arbitrators of certain doctrines have fought against such erroneous thinking. (I will not respond to any debates about the unmentionable argument here on SI as per the moderators request, so please do not debate this, thank you.)
I have lost three children to the grave before they were born, in each case, my wife and I knew the peace of God in our hearts that they were in His hands.
The reason I say that the secret things belong to God is because the one area I believe the scripture says that we are not to be arbitrators of judgment is in the area of eternity. I believe our response to the question is faith that the Lord will do what is right. For every individual ever conceived, it will be up to Jesus Christ to separate the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats. We can only know by fruit. We can only exhort unto salvation. We simply cannot sit on the throne and dole out God's judgments. I personally "think" that the unborn are going to be with the Lord. But like I said, it is a derived understanding from the character and nature of Jesus, not from any direct statement in the word. I trust that He will do what is right. As such, no lie, no falsification, nothing that is not approved of by Him will survive that burning gaze...
I am sure the half-hour of silence in heaven is going to correct a lot of our understanding about these sorts of things as well as give us a peace in the presence of Christ never known. Deuteronomy 32:3-4 says "I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."
While, I have offered you my opinion brother, I still stand by my original statement as my absolute confidence. I am so confident in the perfect judgment of Christ that I trust implicitly, without question, His decisions. Even if I am wrong about them in this life. One of the greatest commentaries in the scripture on this topic, I feel, is found in Luke 13:1-5. "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering them, (I love how it never states the question) Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
The question of Gods justice, and a persons eternal position is supposed to lead us each to this one conclusion...repent or perish yourself. Tell others to repent or perish themselves. God will sift in finality...not us brother. I hope and pray that God gives you peace about your sister. I pray that forgiveness is the concern of your heart above that of theological conclusiveness.
I am sorry for such a wicked tragedy in your life IWantAnguish. God is just.
| 2010/2/26 20:13||Profile|
| Re: |
Dear Brother; none of us agree with or condone
abortion; but we know this; GOD is very merciful!!
Martin G. Smith
| 2010/2/26 20:45||Profile|
| Re: |
If they go to heaven, then perhaps I'll become pro-choice.
America saved 4000 souls today
Better to kill a baby than to let it live and go to hell.
If this would be an acceptable method of saving people, why don't you just take a gun and shoot a lot of young children? Absurd? Why? Killing is murder regardless the environment the victims live in, brother, [EDIT] and you know what the scriptures says about that!
| 2010/2/26 21:10||Profile|
| Re: |
[b]2 Samuel 12:15-23 (NKJV)[/b]
And the LORD struck the child that Uriahs wife bore to David, and it became ill. 16 David therefore pleaded with God for the child, and David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 So the elders of his house arose and went to him, to raise him up from the ground. But he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 Then on the seventh day it came to pass that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead. For they said, Indeed, while the child was alive, we spoke to him, and he would not heed our voice. How can we tell him that the child is dead? He may do some harm!
19 When David saw that his servants were whispering, David perceived that the child was dead. Therefore David said to his servants, Is the child dead?
And they said, He is dead.
20 So David arose from the ground, washed and anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house; and when he requested, they set food before him, and he ate. 21 Then his servants said to him, What is this that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive, but when the child died, you arose and ate food.
22 And he said, While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, [b]Who can tell whether the LORD[a] will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.[/b]
Deduction... David was the Lord's. David was not going to hell. David's son died. David said, "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."
What do these versus say to you? Does this sound like David will see his son again, even though this child (most likely a young or infant child) did not confess "Lord"? Will David be in hell? If David shall go to his son, where is his son if we know that David will not go to hell?
| 2010/2/26 22:42||Profile|
| Re: |
Great Point Miccah, I totally forgot about that passage. This forum is awesome.
| 2010/2/26 23:22||Profile|
| Re: |
Dear Brother, Just know that our Dearest Heavenly Father loves you, your baby sister and your mother. I will be praying for you to have God's heart. Sometimes hard when we are grieving. And that God would reveal sin and forgiveness to your mother. He has open arms waiting for her. We will pray for her. Of course God hates murder of any kind. Even the kind in our heart. But He loves us and longs to bring us to the Cross of Jesus where there is forgiveness of sin and love of God. It is hard a lot of times and such a struggle to forgive but just think and remember of all the things the Lord has forgiven us for as we have cried out to Him in repentance. So with the love in us that is the Jesus in us we will love and pray for those who have not found this love and forgiveness yet. The Father understands your frustrations and hurt by this at the same time He longs for you - for us to see with His eyes and have His heart. You are loved dear brother along with your sister and mother. We pray for you with a tender loving heart of our wonderful Lord Jesus.
| 2010/2/26 23:39||Profile|
For those who say that scripture says nothing about the topic, I would dare them to venture further. I actually recently wrote a blog about this here http://nickvaticancity.blogspot.com/. Scripture is clear that a child in the womb is "enstranged" and "venomous".
| 2010/2/27 1:42||Profile|
| Re: Aborted Babies Go to Hell?|
Scripture is clear that a child in the womb is "enstranged" and "venomous".
Please would you put the relevant scriptures in this thread? I have briefly scanned your blog, and do not wish to pick up on the slant you posted there.
My understanding about this is slightly different, based on some very primitive concepts. These begin in the matter of a man and a woman becoming one flesh with each other, and that the product of conception is, therefore, one flesh with its parents (regardless of the circumstances of the conception).
We know that in the world's worship system (idolatry), children are sacrificed to Molech in many different ways, however, in the Lord, Paul stated a principle clearly, in 1 Cor 7:14, which ties in with the previous point about David's child who died.
I recognise that wilful abortion of an unborn child is distressing all round, including to God, because He has engraved His image upon mankind, and being a God of love and increase desires every child to come to birth, receive its own spirit, and mature into a measure of the fulness of Christ, by the power of faith in Him, and the help of the Holy Spirit.
There is, also, (to IWantAnguish), forgiveness to mothers who have killed children, (at whatever stage of development the child was), when they repent of the sins and seek God's mercy.
There is a mountain of scriptural evidence that God held Himself responsible (by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ), for all murder, from Cain's to Barabbas and beyond, but this is not a blanket pardon to all murderers. Each one has to make an individual approach to God, and then they can experience 'a conscience void of offence' (Acts 24:16), and 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Hebrews 10
There are, also, many places in scripture where God reserves vengeance to Himself, and we do well not to take it into our own hands. Interesting that Paul puts this in the context of loving our enemies in Rom 12:19, 20.
| 2010/2/27 7:03|
| Re: |
If there were less than 10 righteous in Sodom and surrounding area (Gen 18:32), then how many children, infants and pre-born were considered righteous? Somewhere less than 7. The populations there at the time dictate that there would have been more than 7 children, infants and preborn in the area.
If only Noah and his household were found righteous in his generation (Gen 7:1), how many children, infants and pre-born were considered righteous? At that point it would have been none!
We cannot condemn all aborted children to hell, but neither can we automatically imply they all automatically went to heaven. All we are left with is that "the Lord knoweth them that are His", and "shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" We can say no more.
| 2010/2/27 8:28|