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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3706
Ca.

 Re:

2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

FLESH;
Strong's Greek Dictionary
4561. sarx
Search for G4561 in KJVSL
sarx sarx sarx
probably from the base of 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such):--carnal(-ly, + -ly minded), flesh(-ly).

There is only one place our flesh/nature is changed, that is in Christ. Lest His sacrifice is meaningless.

Galatians 6:11-18 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand. As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. Unto the Galatians written from Rome.

We cannot glory in our flesh/nature, only in Christ can we glory. With the Law our without the Law, our old nature is still our old man that needs to be crucified with Christ and reborn anew, with a new nature and quickened flesh to contain this new nature in Christ.

Galatians 2:17-21 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Our flesh/nature must be changed, or we will never see the Kingdom of God. We have a new and living Spirit, that is Christ Jesus and it is perfect. Our nature/flesh is being changed from line upon line and precept upon precept. This comes by the Work of the Holy Spirit our teacher in our soul/mind. This work will be completed on resurrection day as Jeff has stated. Our Spirit is changed, by the Christ in us. Our Flesh nature is being changed by our faith through the Holy Spirit teacher of Christ and His Faith which now lives in us, in Mind/soul, Spirit and will be in body.

"delivered, doth deliver, will yet deliver"

2Co 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

This is our new life, delivered from the old man nature, which was in our body, soul and spirit, Satan's nature, changed to the new Man nature, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.


Colossians 1:20-29 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/2/24 14:14Profile
Veronica226
Member



Joined: 2010/2/3
Posts: 144
Montana

 Re:

Logic,

Quote:
It seems that an explanation of what the flesh really is needs to be given. The flesh is our body, it is a tool, if you will. What matters is how we choose to use our flesh & what we choose to put or affections (desires) on.



So the "flesh" is our physical body? Like, muscles, organs, etc.?

Quote:
The flesh was created weak from the beginning, in the Garden.

How can that be if when God created man He said it was "good?" How can it be "weak" and "good" at the same time?

Galatians 5:24 says, "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." So... according to you the flesh is our actual physical body. So if I take this verse with your definition in view then I need to go ahead and nail myself to a cross? I need to actually physically DIE if I want to be true to Christ? Hmmmmm.......
Wouldn't this be suicide? Which would in essence be murder, and that's never condoned in the Bible, then I would conclude that "the flesh" as referred to in the N.T. is not physical, but spiritual.

In Christ,
Veronica


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Veronica

 2010/2/24 18:16Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Veronica226 asked:
Quote:
It seems that an explanation of what the flesh really is needs to be given. The flesh is our body, it is a tool, if you will. What matters is how we choose to use our flesh & what we choose to put or affections (desires) on.

So the "flesh" is our physical body? Like, muscles, organs, etc.?

Yes.

Quote:
Quote:
The flesh was created weak from the beginning, in the Garden.

How can that be if when God created man He said it was "good?" How can it be "weak" and "good" at the same time?

God called creation "good" in the beginning (Gen 1:31). God calling it good only means it to be useful, serving a defined purpose. Fact is that creation along with our flesh is still good even today.

You see, the word “good” that God called His creation does not mean “perfect” or “incorruptible”, but “suitable, pleasant, agreeable”.

Quote:
So if I take this verse with your definition in view then I need to go ahead and nail myself to a cross?

Only as musch as you should Mortify therefore your members and put to death the deeds of the body.

Col 3:5[b] Mortify therefore your members[/b] which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Rom 8:13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but [b]if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body[/b], you shall live.

If you notice that Galatians 5:24 says rucified the flesh [b]with the affections and lusts[/b].
These efections would be the unlawful affections and lusts, because the good ones are not wrong to keep alive.

What it means to rucified the flesh is to make it as though it were dead to have no control over you.

 2010/2/24 20:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
the original sin camp is definitly making much more sense to me



now i havent heard any word about that, is that camp gonna be held in the spring or the summer and where?

on second thought, i dont know if an "original sin camp" is the kind of camp somebody would want to go to. Doesnt sound like a very good deal to me. i'd prefer a old style revival camp meeting, some good sound preaching, a tarrying tent, none of this "orginal sin" business, that doesnt belong in a camp meeting, no offense.

 2010/2/24 20:07
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3706
Ca.

 Re:

AS said much better than I ever could in presenting this justification to sin by one man's offence, to condemnation to all men in Adam. Unto justification to righteousness and life eternal to all by One Man Jesus Christ.





Gaebelein's Annoted Bible
Romans 5:12


"So then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men to justification of life." This blessed contrast between Adam and Christ is made again in verse 19. "For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man (Adam) the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many shall be constituted righteous." Here it is the contrast between Adam's disobedience and Christ's obedience. And the obedience of Christ which constitutes all who believe on Him righteous, is not His obedient life, but His obedience in the death of the cross. "But law came in in order that the offence might abound; but where sin abounded grace overabounded, in order that, even as sin has reigned in the power of death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Here for the first time a reason is given why God gave the law. The Epistle to the Galatians will bring the subject of Law and Grace more fully to our attention. Law came in that the offence might abound; it has constituted man a transgressor and in this sense the offence abounds. But grace overabounds. It deals with the transgressions and reigns through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Wonderful and preciously deep contrast! In Adam sin. condemnation and death. In Christ righteousness, justification and eternal life; yea much more, eternal glory. In Adam we have his constitution; in Christ we possess through grace His life and glory.

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible
Romans 6:1



CHAPTER 6

1. Dead with Christ to Sin. 1-7.
2. Risen with Christ and Alive to God. 8-11.
3. Sin shall Not Have Dominion. 12-14.
4. Servants to Righteousness. 15-23.
Verses 1-7.--We have learned from the previous chapter that the justified believer is in Christ and fully identified with Him. God sees the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, no longer in Adam, but in Christ, the head of a new creation. "So if any one be in Christ, it is a new creation the old things have passed away, behold all things have become new" (2Co 5:17). Judicially the believer therefore is dead to sin, the old man was crucified, put completely to death in the death Of Christ, and the believer is alive to God in Him. But this wonderful part of the Gospel must become a reality in the life and experience of the believer. God beholds us as dead to sin in Christ and alive in Himself, this must be lived out. This is the solemn responsibility of the justified believer. And we are not to do this in our own strength, but in the power of the indwelling Spirit, who is also given to the believer. All this is unfolded in this chapter.

In Adam all sin, In Christ all are made alive unto God.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/2/25 20:23Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou mis-quoted the Bible saying:
In Adam all sin, In Christ all are made alive unto God.


It is, "In Adam all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be made alive (1Corinth 15:22).

This verse is talking about physical life and death as the verse before is a physical resurrection of the dead.
This verse does not mean that we have a so called “sin nature” given by Adam, but that we still have this corruptible (decaying), dying flesh which cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (1Corinth 15:50).

Being “in Adam” only means that we have this weak, dying flesh. The following verses will prove this fact.
And remember that all are dying because we are cut off from the Tree of Life, not because of our own sin &/or guilt.

So, what it really means to be “in Adam” is that we are still in this corruptible flesh and not changed as yet with a new, incorruptible body which can inherit the Kingdome of God.

Now, being “in Christ” only means those who are “in faith”, and they shall all be made alive in the end.

Therefore, we should know that as we are "in Christ" but still alive in this corruptible (decaying) & dying flesh, we remain "in Adam", until we are made alive or immortal at the resurrection.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind, on all whom had sinned.
[b]In other words:[/b]
The same way sin entered the world by one man & he died by way of that sin; it is in this way that death passed to all mankind, on all whom had sinned.

It isn't that sin came apon all man, but only death. The death came because Adam was cut off from the Tree of Life and eventually died because of his sin. Now that we are also cut off from the Tree of Life, we also die because of Adam's sin.

Physical death is not because we sin, but that we have no access to the Tree of Life.
We only spiritually doe because of our own personal sin at the age of accountability.

If you want to take it that the death was also spiritual, then: as through one man sin entered the world, and through sin, spiritual death death; and the same way (through our own sin) spiritual death passed to all mankind on all whom had sinned.

 2010/2/25 21:56Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3706
Ca.

 Re:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

No death without sin, no sin without death. "all have sinned"

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/2/26 12:07Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou said:
No death without sin

Miscariages, newborns, todlers die with out sin.
Animals doe without sin.

The death which entered by sin is the physical death from not eating of thr Tree of Life & spiritual death by one's own sin at the age of accountability.

 2010/2/26 15:51Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3706
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

""Miscariages, newborns, todlers die with out sin.
Animals doe without sin.""

Yet they all die.

Where is this in scripture?

Where do animals have a spirit?

Adam failed and so all God's creation in Adam failed. That is why Christ died for the "sin" of the whole world. That is why Christ is the only answer for sin and reconciliation of Those in Christ Jesus to the Father. We that are alive unto God have partaken of the Tree of Life, who is Christ.

We cannot take the control of God's own creation out of His hands and put it in the control of man. This is where we differ and this is getting to close to what our learned moderators ask us to not explore in our consideration and praying before our posts. No building up of the Body of Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/2/26 23:31Profile
Justus2320
Member



Joined: 2009/5/27
Posts: 11
Brownsville TX

 Re:

Can you read this and tell me what you think? Very relevant to your Question


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David Perez Jr.

 2010/2/27 1:43Profile





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