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 Creationist - Ken Ham

Since someone posted his link for the "State of the Union 2" address, I have been listening to quite a lot from this man (of God?) over the past few days.

Seeing that I know very little about the debates regarding Creationism and the alike...

My question is what problem do people (Christians) have with creationism and/or Ken Ham? (I ask this because I noticed that there were sarcastic remarks made in that particular thread).

So far I cannot find anything wrong with his teaching, although I am aware that I have not scratched the surface in what he is putting forth.

 2010/2/20 5:28









 Re: Creationist - Ken Ham

I was the one who made SI forum aware of the webcast.

The points that Ken made in the webcast apply to what happened in the thread.

Also if you watch the movie "Expelled, No Intelegence Allowed" with Ben Stien it will round out your understanding of the attack against God being the creator of all things.

 2010/2/20 7:16









 Re:

Quote:
I was the one who made SI forum aware of the webcast. The points that Ken made in the webcast apply to what happened in the thread. Also if you watch the movie "Expelled, No Intelegence Allowed" with Ben Stien it will round out your understanding of the attack against God being the creator of all things.



Thank you for your reply (and the webcast announcement...it was a good message) . Although, my question is what problems do Christians in general and here on SI have with Ken Ham and creationism? ...if any. (maybe I was reading the comments wrong)?


EDIT NOTE: I just checked the old thread and noticed that it was locked... i did not start this because I knew that it was, rather cause I was/am interested in brothers' and sisters' views of Ken Ham and creationism.

 2010/2/20 7:27
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re: Creationist - Ken Ham

My objection to creation science and every other aspect of Christian apologetics is that it is a form of priestcraft that requires [i]sacrificium intellectus[/i] - the sacrifice of the intellect. Nowhere does the Word of God require us to forfeit our critical intelligence and hand it over to a priest or creation scientist. The organized religion industry requires that.

You do not have to commit intellectual suicide to believe the Scriptures; you have to commit intellectual suicide to believe Ken Ham and Kent Hovind. I don't know a lot about science, but I know a snow job when I see one. It is one thing to believe in young earth creationism as a point of faith; it is another to support that position with lunatic logic and junk science and call yourself "Doctor."

Christian apologetics begins with the proposition that the truth of the Bible can be logically proved, then achieves the exact opposite of what it intends. It implants doubts in people's minds and then confirms those doubts by using laughably weak arguments. As a teenager I lost faith when I read Josh McDowell's [i]More Than a Carpenter[/i] and concluded that anyone who has to use that sort of logic to support his beliefs is willfully self-deceived.

People don't always understand why they do the things they do or the significance of the roles they play in the social forum. But the role of the Christian apologist in the organized religion industry is to undermine real faith so that people will be in the market for bad faith, which is precisely what the professional clergy is selling.


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2010/2/20 9:35Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Agreed wayne. I think while well meaning, and while making good theological points (points that made a great impact on me when I was young in my faith), Ken Ham's apologetic is ultimately fleshly, and not Spirit fueled. While I believe in a young earth and a literal six day creation, I don't believe such because the science demands I do such. Indeed, if anything, science today shows the complete opposite. I'm no scientist, but, I had more than enough science classes in college to see the weight of the argument of the scientific community towards evolutionary theory. I believe in a young earth and literal six day creation, and ultimately the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, not because all the evidence says I should believe such, but rather, because I believe the revelation God has made known through the word of God. I believe such because Jesus Christ took hold of my life 11 years ago, and disclosed Himself to me in such a radical way that I will believe what He says in His word over what science says in its words. And now, no matter what evidence they stack up against the claims of our faith, I choose to believe what God says, because in my faith, I have the evidence I need to denounce the claims of this world.

Ken Ham's apologetic ultimately creates a weakened faith in the life of a believer. For the faith is not ultimately one that is centered in Christ, and in the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, rather, it is grounded in "creation science." And creation science ultimately demands one put a "spin" on the objective evidence we have before us so far today, and in some cases, lie. Oh, sometimes it raises legitimate objections to things, things which many in the world so far as I've seen have yet to answer. But, causing one to be skeptical about the findings of science thus far is not the same as creating faith in a risen Lord.

Creation science ultimately gives one a bad foundation upon which to build their life of faith. It's as shaky as using the shroud of Turin as proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. For what happens, when somebody out there shows your science and "proof" to be faulty? You faith will ultimately be destroyed. Our faith must not be built on the things that can be seen, but rather, the things that cannot be seen.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/2/20 10:01Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re: Creationism

Jimmy

Well said. Even Calvin, the rigid logician, said that, "It is foolish to offer logical proofs for the truth of the Scriptures, for it is only by the Holy Spirit that we know the Bible is the word of God."


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2010/2/20 10:24Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7419
Mississippi

 Re:

Wayne,
Have you visited the Creation Museum near Cincinnati, OH?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/2/20 12:05Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

Hi Ginny,

No, I haven't. Would it be worth a six-hour drive?


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Wayne Kraus

 2010/2/20 12:29Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7419
Mississippi

 Re:

"No, I haven't. Would it be worth a six-hour drive?"

I would say 'yes'. We visited it and enjoyed it. We live in MS and I think it took us close to nine hours to get there. I know of some who have been there several times. Our son who has a B.S in microbiology enjoyed it as well.

The botanical gardens are beautiful but to experience it at its best is during the summer when plants are in bloom.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2010/2/20 13:56Profile
DBen
Member



Joined: 2008/10/23
Posts: 60
Western NY, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Creation science ultimately gives one a bad foundation upon which to build their life of faith. It's as shaky as using the shroud of Turin as proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. For what happens, when somebody out there shows your science and "proof" to be faulty? You faith will ultimately be destroyed. Our faith must not be built on the things that can be seen, but rather, the things that cannot be seen.



Well said. Without faith it is impossible to please God and MUCH will try to come in the way of faith.


_________________
David Benoit

 2010/2/20 14:17Profile





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