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murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 A further work in Christian's life after conversion

Gal 2:2-3 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The above scripture ask us a question “having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” but it also lets us know that there is further work to be done in us after conversion.

Did we get it all at conversion well according to Paul we who believe in Jesus as Our Lord and Savior have begun but we haven’t got it all we are not perfected as Paul says and will never be perfected by the flesh…….

[b] For ye are yet carnal regeneration does not remove all sin [/b]

In 1 Cor 3:3 we see that there is still carnality remaining after conversion. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? Christians after being regenerated still have carnality in them. For ye are yet carnal, believers yes but carnal. Regeneration does not remove all sin.

Paul in 1 Cor 3:1 says that he could not talk to them as Spiritual but carnal and even goes as far saying that they are babes in Christ. So they are believers but carnal. Regeneration does not remove all sin.

Dr. Charles Hodge: "According to Scripture and the undeniable evidence of history, regeneration does not remove all sin."

The Elder Dr. Steven Tyng, Episcopal Church, New York. He said to those who were joining his church: "Though truly a child of God, you still carry with you a heart far from sanctified, a remaining sinfulness of nature in its appetites and propensities which demands unceasing vigilance. You cannot afford to relax your vigilance over these outgoings of your own sinful hearts."

What a declaration! "Children of God," yet “still possessing "sinful hearts."

Paul in Roms 7:25 gives us some insight to what happens after Regeneration with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. What he is saying is that he wants to please God but finds that there is a law of sin and because of that law of sin he is yet carnal sold under sin. Roms 7:14.

So to sum it up when we first believed this did not make us perfect little Christians and that there is a further work that needs to be done because there is carnality remaining in us.


[b]Is there a cure for the carnality [/b]

Romans 6:4-7 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Here we are told that we are free from Sin because our old self was crucified with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

So there is hope we can be free from the remainder of sin (carnality) after regeneration but does Water baptism finish off any remainder of carnality after regeneration?

My own personnel experience would say it doesn’t deal the death blow to carnality but what does scripture say;

1 Peter 3: 21 the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Water baptism does not put away the filth of the flesh……So what baptism puts away the filthiness of the flesh. Water baptism is a symbolic burial by which the new Christian publicly declares they have died and that they are beginning a new life, in Christ but it’s not the baptism that deals the death blow to carnality.

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

The prophet John tells us of another baptism that Jesus has this is the baptism with the Holy Spirit…

Does this baptism deal with carnality with the filth of the flesh?

Acts 15:7-9 after much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

Peter implies that his heart is purified by saying "He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith" but he also states that he witnessed the gentiles having there hearts purified by getting the Holy Spirit.

The Baptism with Holy Spirit is the baptism we need to clean our hearts and deals the death blow to the remainder of sin (carnality).

Ah you say but that the heart is not the old self (old man) that Paul speaks about in Romans 6………

Here’s a verse about the heart Jeremiah 17:9 the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Here’s a verse about the old self (old man) Ephesians 4:22 that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts.

How does God describe our heart he says the “heart is deceitful and desperately wicked " Jer 17:9

How does God describe the old man it is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts Ephesians 4:22

The heart and the old man are the same thing and we find that the Holy Spirit will cleanse our heart or remove the old man and it’s this Baptism of the Holy Spirit and only this baptism which will deal the death blow to carnality in the Christian life…………

Further to that with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit you put on Christ Galatians 3: 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Christ is the new man you have put on in Baptism of the Holy Spirit and he is created in righteousness and true holiness Ephesians 4:23.

When God started opening my eyes to a deeper work in a Christian life after conversion and started to talk about it I was challenged by a man he said “show it to me through the Apostles Paul’s life and teachings” which I hope I have managed in this post.

[b]A further work in Paul’s life after conversion [/b]
Lets look at Paul’s life we all know about what happen in Acts to Paul on the road to Damascus and his conversion…but what happened after conversion we know he spent at least 3 years in Arabia and Damascus…

Galatians 1: 17-18 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

So what happen there he tells us that that after he was called he found out the purpose it was to reveal his Son in him Galatians 1:16

This is a completely different work that comes after conversion, you see my friends the reason you are regenerated and called is so the Son of God can be revealed in you, this will and can only happen when the old man is gone and the new man is put on which is Christ where we are created in righteousness and true holiness in Him.


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Colin Murray

 2010/2/19 18:14Profile
BeYeDoers
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Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re: A further work in Christian's life after conversion

Would you please define "regeneration".


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Denver McDaniel

 2010/2/19 19:30Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Would you please define "regeneration".



Regeneration in my own words would mean that you were once dead to God but now alive you have been born again I was aware that my sins were forgiven. This was not something I earned but because God sent his Son Jesus to die on the cross. Jesus paid the full price for my salavation and it was because of him I could now go to the Father, I have been adopted in God's family and am his child.

For myself it came when saw I need to see to change my way of life as I could not go another day living that way. I said a simle prayer "God change me, I am fed upbeing like this" he heard it and changed me.


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Colin Murray

 2010/2/19 20:43Profile
BeYeDoers
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Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

So what scriptures would you point to in defining regeneration?

If I could paraphrase what you said, "regeneration is change", would you agree? What exactly changes?


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Denver McDaniel

 2010/2/19 21:30Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

So what changed?

Well when I said "God change me I am fed up being like this" what happened next as I lay down on my bed was a wind left me, after that a wind blew into me.

John 20:21-22 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

So you could say this happened at this time

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


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Colin Murray

 2010/2/20 17:59Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: A further work in Christian's life after conversion

Colin: Great post brother. I might add that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the power source for victory in the life of a believer. Remember Jesus said He was going to give us power to be martyrs. This could be literal, but I believe refers more to the life laid down as a living sacrifice. After all, it is the living sacrifice that is able to lay down the physical body as well. KJV translates this "witnesses", but the greek is literally martyr. It is through the power of the Holy Spirit that I am able to mortify the old man and live after and walk in the Spirit. I have found this to be so key to victory in my life. Thanks for the post brother.

Travis


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Travis

 2010/2/23 19:54Profile









 Re: A further work in Christian's life after conversion

Amen brother!

 2010/3/5 9:40









 Re: A further work in Christian's life after conversion

BeYeDoers asked

Quote:
So what scriptures would you point to in defining regeneration?

Personally, I would define my [i]conscious co-operation with[/i] regeneration from the time I understood that unless I accepted the spiritual meaning and outworking of the death into which I'd (already) been baptised in Christ through the Holy Spirit (Rom 6:4), I would not experience the spiritual outworking of the 'walk in newness of life'.

What I mean is - one can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit without having any idea of how to define the gospel, or explain it from scripture. This was not the case in Israel after Pentecost. Jews knew that keeping the law had not brought them peace with God on the inside, yet those who had desired to please God on the inside found the power to walk in His life, after they had been baptised into the Holy Spirit through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as a sacrifice for all sin. This happened, also, the context of frank idolatry in the Roman world around them, and covert idolatry amongst themselves, of which God had previously and frequently accused them (Jews), and many times destroyed one or anther participating generation.

This context for 'the gospel of Jesus Christ' is really important for every generation (of [u]all[/u] people - Luke 2:10), otherwise the very real wrath of God against sinners is minimised to such an extent that God is perceived as somehow owing it to man to save him, regardless of man exercising faith to get victory over sin (which is the purpose of regeneration).

Heb 10:1 - 25; Rom 8:10, [b]11[/b], 12, 13, 14;

Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [i]and[/i] hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 [i]This is[/i] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


What do you think of these verses?

 2010/3/8 11:44
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

ByYeDoers, I would add to AlivetoGod's list the entire first portion of John chapter 3. The term "regeneration" is not in the Bible, but the concept of regeneration or rebirth is. Born again is regenerated.

Travis


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Travis

 2010/3/8 16:35Profile
mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re: A further work in Christian's life after conversion

This is something that I haven't really been exposed to. I believe Christ is my savior and Lord, how do you know you have recieved this second baptism? According to Pentecostals speaking in tongues is the physical evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit, but further study for me is pointing more to the only true evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a changed life. If this be true I ask that you all pray for me to recieve this baptism for Christ glory. whether I recieve it or not I will praise Him for He is worthy of praise!

God Bless,
Matthew


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/3/8 17:10Profile





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