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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is making a Covenant with a Pastor biblically supported?

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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Thinking about this topic some more... I am reminded that Paul seems to have "covenanted" with the Church of Corinth in taking up an offering for the saints in Jerusalem. If you read 2nd Corinthians, Paul spends a couple chapters reminding them of how they promised to take up an offering for the poor there, and that he wanted to write to make sure they were going to make good on their promise to him. He didn't want to leave them empty handed.

Just some food for thought.


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Jimmy H

 2010/2/17 23:07Profile









 Re:

Hey KingJimmy,

A commitment to give to help brethren seems a little different than a church covenant.

 2010/2/18 1:36
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Mmmmmm.... yes, there are differences... technically. Technically in a covenant, failure to live up to the covenant means one will suffer from failing to meet expectations. Usually a sacrifice was made at the beginning of the covenant, and the parties would walk between the pieces of the sacrifice in order to signify their own death should they fail to live up to the demands of the covenant. But as history has progressed, these elements have faded away. I'm guessing though Paul was a forgiving man, had the Corinth's failed to take up a good offering, his relationship with them would've been strained.


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Jimmy H

 2010/2/18 6:50Profile
MikeH
Member



Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


 Re:

King Jimmy wrote

Quote:
Be careful

I'll try to be.

King Jimmy wrote
Quote:
He was not contradicting the Law.

But He was changing the law. The phrase "You have heard that it was said ... But I say unto you ..." occurs six times in this chapter (Mat 5:21-22; Mat 5:27-28; Mat 5:31-32; Mat 5:33-34; Mat 5:38-39; Mat 5:43-44). The law was God's minimum, Jesus was showing God's heart, which was your Yes be Yes and your No, No. James confirms this teaching in Jam 5:12 . The underlying reason for this was the only one capable of making an oath was God himself.

King Jimmy wrote
Quote:
as demonstrated several times in Paul's epistles

Can you give us chapter and verse on these. I know Paul took vows, but I can find no record relating to the verb 'to swear' (Strongs 3660) in the episles, unless it relates to God swearing/taking oaths.

Kind regards

Mike

 2010/2/18 8:14Profile









 Re:

Making a covenant is making promises that each party will promise to keep. Eph 2:12

If making a covenant with this Pastor in the sight of God, your making certain promises to this Pastor.

Let me offer some scripture concerning the making of promises.

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

Matthew 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

Matthew 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

Save yourself from grief, keep yourself from these unnecessary burdens, there is enough evil each day to deal with then to perform an oath that you might not be able to keep because your not your own, you've been bought with a price and you can't just do whatever you feel like doing.

 2010/2/18 9:41
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

I would like to add one more thing...

If believers are truly living for Christ under the terms of God's grace in the New Covenant -- then why would they even feel a need to create an additional covenant with a man who claims to serve in the role of a "pastor?"

We already have a perfect Covenant that does not need to be improved upon.

*EDIT - What I meant to say is: If we are truly fulfilling the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus...and loving the Lord our God with all of heart, mind, soul and strength...and loving our neighbors as ourselves -- then aren't we ALREADY fulfilling any thing that an pseudo-Biblical "earthly" covenant might require?


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Christopher

 2010/2/18 12:49Profile





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