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MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Frank

I was very touched and moved by your heart felt testimony concerning your mother. I do agree that when we share with others we must allow Jesus to speak through us. There must be none of self, and our hearts even when sharing and speaking about sin must be centered on Christ Jesus and filled with His love.

Please so that you will understand my heart allow me to share my story if I may. In my case, there were so many occasions I held my tongue with both my brother and my dad. I tried to speak to them both of the love of Christ and never really spoke to them concerning their sin. Both are gone and while I may have tried to share love, I never used the opportunities God gave me to share His truth, that we must repent of our sins, take up our cross, die to self and seek to live our life in obedience and submission onto the Lord. My dad often said he knew he was a sinner but he held on to deceived notions that he would be saved by following certain rituals and traditions. He died confessing his sins to a man, to a priest, asking a priest to forgive him. He never talked to Jesus, he never asked Him for forgiveness directly. My brother believed that God is love and that he is so loving that He would never really send anyone to hell.He drank and did drugs and lived his life believing a lie. I wasted so many opportunities to speak truth into both of their lives, I was to concerned that they would not like what I had to say or that they would get upset. For me, I am seeing that Jesus does not chase people down and beg them to follow Him. He says clearly, repent and follow Me. I hear so many people say that God loves you just the way you are and a part of me wonders, "IF God loves me just the way I am then why did He send His son? why does He call me to die to who I am "self", so that I can be born again as a new creation? If He loves me as I am, then why is my life after coming to Him changed so dramatically?"

As I read over the last part of what you shared something struck me, its something that often has come up with my mother. How can a daughter who knows Biblical truth, show her love for her unsaved mother. Does she do so by saying, "God loves you just as you are, go ahead and pray to mary it gives you comfort. Talk to the priest, you'll feel better, just remember God loves you so much." Or does this daughter say, "mom Jesus does love you, but these traditions from the RC you hold to, they are not of Him. He wants your whole heart, He wants you to know Him, to talk to Him, to walk with Him every day. He does not want you to go to a priest when you need to repent, He wants to hear from you personally. When you hurting He does not want you to talk and pray to mary, He wants to take you in His arms and comfort you Himself. By holding on to these things, these traditions in your life, your holding on to idols and that's sin that keeps Him far from you. That could if you don't repent of these things and allow Him to work in your heart could lead you to death." (Which is a real and deep expression of love from a daughter to her very ill mother? Its been on my heart for some time now)

These are some of the things on my own heart and why I am cautious of things that appear as compromise. Thank you for sharing your heart as well. I don't claim to have all the answers, just humbly searching to know His heart and will on these matters.

God Bless
maryjane

 2010/2/20 14:04Profile









 Re:

HI Maryjane,

Thats a good reply to my reply :) Just so you know, I was born and raised a Catholic, Catholic education, Catholic marriage, Catholic church buried my first son, Catholic community in Scotland. I am well aware of the issues that surround witessing to Catholics as well as the vilest sinners(I was one in the literal sense)

I would stand by what I wrote in my first reply. Remember, just because your brother said it, does no make it true. All men know in their hearts that they are sinners and are seperated from God. They will stand and give an account before the living God and they will have no defence, including ignorance. I did say that we were to share the Truth in Love. Let me give you an example. After my own fathers conversion, he hated Catholicism. Now I hate it too. Yet he gets angry at Catholics and is known a Catholic basher. He never gets close enough with any Catholic to share the Truth. Let me give you one example from my sharing with a Catholic. I was standing in my neighbors house one time. She is a Catholic. She had a very staunch Catholic frined over visiting that day. The staunch Catholic freind was laying into her about her son who was living in sin. When she was finished, I began to speak about Jesus. Howe I met Him and how He changed my life and how much I loved Him. I had the "floor, for 20 uninterrupted minutes. When I was finished, there was ten seconds of silence. She then said these words that I will never forget "I do not know the Jesus that you are talking about." You see my point Maryjane? I shared the Truth in love , the Holy Spirit convicted her heart, and then she confessed that she did not "know," Jesus.

When the subject is raised by your mother or anyone else, you can explain what you believe. Never worry about the Truth competing with their lie. Let the other side raise the issues, believe me, if you are walking in the Spirit, every issue will come up and it is important that we take our openings when we get them. I had one co-worker say to me, without me evey saying anyhting about her "Are you trying to say that If I die tonight, I would go to hell?" I never said anyhting about her, but the Spirit of conviction was at work, she had the revelation and I confirmed the Truth. When people know that you love them, you get away with so much more becuase it is all the Holy Spirits work. I have entered into His rest and ceased from my works. It is no longer I that live or work, it is Christ that lives and works in me and through me and that is why all the glory is His. Speak the Truth in love when He makes the opneings sis, without fear of consequences, and you will see a radical difference in your sharing. You will begin to speak with "Katanusso," power. You can see what that is at this link.... http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/stabbed-in-the-heartbaptism-in-the-holy-spirit/ ...Frank

 2010/2/20 15:16
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Frank

I thought I remembered reading before on another thread that you were at one time a Catholic, that is how I knew you would understand some of those things that I shared about my family:)

You wrote:

Quote:
I would stand by what I wrote in my first reply.


_________________________________________________

Dear brother please do not feel as if I was trying to sway you to my side or point of view with what I shared. That was not my intention at all, I was just attempting to express what the Lord has put on my own heart. I realize that the Holy Spirit moves differently with how He leads us to share with those God gives opportunity for us to share with. I know that for some just sharing Gods love to those who have never experienced love is enough to convict their hearts and point them to Jesus. I know that there are some who are so deceived by self and the desires of their flesh that they honestly do not think themselves to be that bad a person. Since my dad was RC he always saw sin in degrees of sin. He knew he was a sinner just not that bad of one. My dad would tell me so many things and then he would add, but I'm not a bad person, not compared to some. I really am pretty good guy when you consider what some do. My dad never really did see that all those little sins that he just excused off where the very sins that nailed Jesus to the cross.

I hear what you are saying about your dad and his hate for the RC and how this keeps him from being able to with the love of Christ share and extend himself with others. It is a fine line I think or maybe a narrow path when we go out into the world to share Jesus with others, that's probably why its so vital that we stay really close to Him and not let self get in the way:) For me I have had to check my heart often and even ask others around me before I speak with my mom now because as much as I hate the bondage the lies of the RC holds on her, I love her and those who are still lost and deceived in the RC. After all I was once just like them, lost and deceived in need of my Savior.

The story of how you shared with that lady is really very wonderful. Did you ever have opportunity to speak with her further? Did anything come from the first seed planted when you shared with her?
My own mother is a difficult case, she see Jesus and the RC as one and the same. She does not believe the Bible is the only authority on Jesus to be followed, there are priests, the Pope, and the Holy Mother Mary as well as all the past saints that we must look to in our walk and devotions to walking with the Lord.

And I just realized how long this has gotten(sorry) and how far off the original topic as well. Sorry about that to.

God Bless you Frank and thank you for your council and sharing your heart on these things. In the end I think we are both wanting the same thing to share with others the Love of Christ with out compromise.

maryjane

 2010/2/20 16:21Profile
bible4life
Member



Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1558
Locport, Illinois

 Re:

i think a big problem was that he was apologizing to homosexuals but his assumption is that all christians are hateful to them, but in actuality homosexuals really just don' like are stand against homoexuality because scripture speaks against, some have been treated bad but most don't like how the Bible speaks against it and they say that is christian cruelty, no we are standing for the truth, but that must be done in love but never not tell them the truth. I use to struggle with homosexual feelings but praise God he delivered me. We can't give up biblical truth and think that is love, that is not love, not telling them truth.


_________________
John Beechy

 2010/2/20 18:34Profile









 Re:

Hi Bible, you can never go wrong speaking, as led by the Holy Spirit, the Truth in love..........Frank

 2010/2/20 18:45









 Re:

HI Maryjane,

I understand fully what you are saying about your dad, I just would not have believed your dad thats all. People say all manner of things, yet at the heart of it all they do not want to surrender their lives to Jesus. Its rebellion, pure and simple. That is why I quoted Romans 1. Men and woman will do all manner of things, whether it is worship a clay idol, or cut down a tree and use part of it for fuel and the other part carve into an idol, or worship Mary or whatever. Its all rebellion and the rebellion stops when they come before the Lord.

I am sure that all of your family know exactly what you are. None of them will be ignorant of who you are or what your life is about. Its not so much that they are Catholic, its more about the fact that they want nothing to do with what you are and they would refuse to bow the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ and take all of Him, not just the parts they like(the real meaning behind John 6)
So, speaking the truth in love is always the answer. If your dad claimed he was a sinner but not that bad compared to others, then of course we could have talked about all of our righteousness being like filty rags before the Lord and so on. I have found Catholics are very reluctant to dismiss Scripture if prsented with it. I always like to ask them, if the Holy Spirit gives me an opening, what did Jesus mean when He said that a man must be born again to enter heaven, and then kinda take it from there. I do try and avoid using the phrase "you are wrong," but would rather say something like, "well here is what that means to me," and then share my testimony....brother Frank

 2010/2/20 19:00
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3385
East TN (for now)

 Re: has anyone heard about this

Many times, the people at church are closer to us than our family's are and when you walk in and say, "hi so and so" and they turn the other way and so you try someone else and they do the same thing; you are getting the silent treatment (being shunned) without explanation I might add, you will not understand this video.

I totally understand Bill Maher comments that Jesus was THE greatest philosopher of all and that "it's a shame that most of His followers act nothing like Him." I don't personally believe Jesus was the greatest philosopher!!! But I agree that most of Christ's followers act nothing like Him (edit = including myself in times past).

I went to a church for five years and fell in love with these people and was shunned without explanation but I know what I did though. The pastor told me he was a prophet and I should listen to him and submit to him and I told him that he was not a prophet, he might be called to be one but he certainly didn't occupy the office of a prophet. I'm sure they all heard his side of the story and therefore, no one asked for mine. They didn't even follow biblical discipline, they didn't even pass go, they went directly to "shun her!!"

After this church experience, if I could have found where to buy that bumper sticker, "Jesus, save me from your followers," I would have had it on my car in a heartbeat and drove to church with it!!! So I totally got this video. I'm thinking that if you've never been "totally" rejected by your biological or spiritual family, then some of you may not be able to understand this video.

I was a heterosexual believer being treated this way, I cannot comprehend telling someone who may or may not be saved that God hates them or they're going to hell.


_________________
Lisa

 2010/2/20 19:25Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3385
East TN (for now)

 Re: bible4life

Quote:
i think a big problem was that he was apologizing to homosexuals but his assumption is that all christians are hateful to them, but in actuality homosexuals really just don' like are stand against homoexuality because scripture speaks against, some have been treated bad but most don't like how the Bible speaks against it and they say that is christian cruelty, no we are standing for the truth, but that must be done in love but never not tell them the truth. I use to struggle with homosexual feelings but praise God he delivered me. We can't give up biblical truth and think that is love, that is not love, not telling them truth.



I don't think that is a big problem. There is an old saying that says, "you get more flies with honey than you do vinegar." I admit that there are militant homosexuals out there but you know what? There are militant christians as well who have ruined it for the rest of us who would walk up and talk rationally to them about Jesus and His ways.

The guy in the video never said anything about NOT offering the truth. He was trying to shine light on some of the bad mistakes we've made in the past. That's just my opinion though!

God bless,


_________________
Lisa

 2010/2/20 19:31Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Quote:
I understand fully what you are saying about your dad, I just would not have believed your dad thats all.



____________________________________________

Greetings Frank

There are times when I think about my dad and where he may be at this moment and there is a part of me that hopes very much that maybe he was just saying those things to me, but somewhere deep down in his heart he knew and in those last few hours before he died he spoke to Jesus himself about his sin. I will never know for sure, but God knows and that is good enough for me.

My mom hates if I try to share scripture with her. She is so firm in her faith in the Catholic church that she actually feels as if I am trying to steal her faith or take something from her if I talk to her. She has told me she will never part with mary, I am the one who has a problem not her. I spend a lot of time in prayer for her. Coming from your background as you do I know you know or have probably dealt with this attitude as well. Thank you for sharing with me today brother. I feel that it has been a really good exchange and I have profited much from it:)


Lysa I do know what your talking about being rejected.I have gone through this before and in some ways still am. It can be a very painful hurt to overcome, its easy after going through things like that to want to close yourself off away from others completely.

God Bless
mj

 2010/2/20 19:49Profile
fieldlaborer
Member



Joined: 2009/4/20
Posts: 30


 Re:

From what I have read we all agree that Christians must be motivated by love when telling the truth. There is no denying that there have been some that have crossed the line and have attacked the lost instead of trying to just shine light in the darkness. We must remember to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves, making sure we are the salt of the earth.

Colossians 4:5-6 (KJV)
5 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time.
6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

The major problem that I have with this film is that there is no salvation message. After all if we leave behind the truth what good are we doing if we are just nice people.

Matthew 5:13 (KJV)
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Finally, I disagree with those that say we should not oppose wrong teaching or sin. After all Jesus himself commended the church of Ephesus for opposing the Nicolaitans.

Revelation 2:6 (KJV)
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

What are the deeds of the Nicolaitans? From what I have read it can be defined this way: Antinomianism: A belief that is based upon a recognition of the mercy of God as the ground of salvation, but it makes the fatal mistake that man can freely partake in sin because the Law of God is no longer binding.

Sin brings death, and how can we just sit by and watch the lost race towards hell without warning them? If we really love them don't you think we will tell them the truth?

Back to the church at Ephesus, while they were correct in opposing the Nicolaitans they had left their first love. This church was no longer opposing this heresy out of love for their savior, they were motivated by something else.

Let this be a lesson for us today that while we must oppose sin, we must be a watchman as Ezekiel was, and we must speak the truth, we have to do it out of love for our savior.

I believe we will see more and more of this teaching, a preaching of Christ that does not confront people in their sin, a Christ that is just a good man who can be compatible with any other form of religion, and a Christ that loves everyone and rescues no one from their sin. This is why I believe the movie is dangerous, it preaches another Christ than the Holy Bible.

Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV)
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 2010/2/20 20:07Profile





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